Andiroo99

Hi All

Can anyone advise on a suitable set up for a 5 speed bike with either double or triple cogs up front giving me either 10 or 15 gears. I dont have a huge budget so either need to source parts on ebay or find decent prices on some new parts.

The build is to go onto a 1983 Mercian King of Mercia touring bike. The rear dropouts only have 120mm spacing so i am restricted and do not really want to cold set the frame. Ideally i would like to make the bike a fairly fast road bike as i already have a touring bike. So i would want pretty narrow tires and gearing which will get me up hills without too much pain but also be nice and quick.

I am no techy so excuse my ignorance on which parts i can put with what to get this moving. I see their are a a lot of Suntour 5 speed cassettes on Ebay but i am unsure how these would work with Shimano or Campag parts. At the moment i have a totally bare frame and fork so this is really a bottom up build.

So if anyone can help me get a spec list together for the drivetrain that would be a great help.

Pictures of the frame / fork can be found here: https://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/...fleur/Mercian/

Many thanks

Andy

Andiroo99

I meant to add that this will be on a 700c wheel.

Captain Blight

46/50 rings and 13,15,18,22,28 teeth gives 10 evenly spaced gears with nice even ~8% steps with no duplication. You'll be shifting more up front but with only a 4-tooth difference it's not such a big deal.

Andiroo99

Hi

Thanks for quick reply. Do you know where i can get such a set up and what the cassette and cranks would be?

Andy

randyjawa 

Triple ring crank set will require a longer bottom bracket spindle than will a double ring crank set. The bottom bracket, triple ring crank will probably prove costly, certainly more so than a double.

Were I you, I would go for a 52/42 crank ring combo, which is very common. Use that to drive a wide spread rear cog set, similar to the one on my Specialized Junk bike. Sure the big gears look a bit funny on this style of bike, but if I had the traction, the bike would climb a wall.

And, for that wide range cog set, you will need a long cage derailleur. The one on my Junk Specialized is, well, junky entry level poo-poo, but it works absolutely great. Go figure??? Or take a peek at the cog set on a recently acquired Maserati - huge spread.

Andiroo99

Hi

Do you think that these:

https://cgi.ebay.com/USED-170-CAMPAGN...a#ht_799wt_905

Would work with a shimano 5 speed freewheel like these:

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_500wt_1156

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_500wt_1156

Would i need a specific chain? Would they all work with a 700c wheel?

Andy

Homebrew01

Pretty much everything is compatible within that vintage. You've got about 1,001 possibilities. Figure out what range of gearing you want based on your fitness, terrain etc .... then look for appropriate parts. Are you trying to get specific vintage or period correct parts ? or is it a budget mish-mash build ?

Verify the BB and headset threading before buying.

Andiroo99

Hi

I would ideally like something that is approx correct vintage (early 80s etc) where i can but also have to work within a certain budget. In terms of terrain it will be mainly road or pretty smooth trails as i have a surly cross check for longer and more gnarly rides.

Open to suggestions.

Andy

Homebrew01

A lot of it is personal preference. You can find lots of different components for similar prices ..... depends on which ones you like ...

sillygolem

You can buy a new 5 speed freewheel pretty cheap, and it will work with this setup. Shimano, Sunrace, and Falcon all make them, and with shipping it will probably be about the same price as a vintage freewheel, and it isn't as obvious style-wise as using a new derailleur.

If you live in a city, you may have a bike coop or used bike shop with old parts that can be had for a song.

pastorbobnlnh 

The Suntour freewheels on ebay are nice (but not rare). The two notch removal tool (with the first one) will not work on the 4 notch freewheel that is pictured. Watch what they go for and I can set one up for you at a competitive price with the exact 5 cogs you want.

Andiroo99

Hi Bob

You know how it is - 10 cyclists and 10 opinions. There are so many knowledgeable people on here i am left reeling with all the advice!

Anyway - here is my conundrum. I bought a 1983 Mercian touring bike expecting to have a 126mm rear spacing. I thought i would get it cold set to 130. Instead i got a 120mm rear end. Others have said it might be flexible enough to get a 6 speed which sounds possible - but not sure (as you can tell i am no expert!!).

So now i am thinking well why not just keep it original and set it up as either a 10 speed. I have a bike set up for touring and so will use this for shorter rides on the road - so something quick and light'ish would be good.

Someone suggested this set up would work great - 46/50 rings and 13,15,18,22,28 teeth gives 10 evenly spaced gears with nice even ~8% steps with no duplication. You'll be shifting more up front but with only a 4-tooth difference it's not such a big deal.

If this works i then just need to find some wheels to set them in and front and rear derailleurs that work well and are of period and some nice cranks and BB. Again i an unsure what will work best with this type of set up and the freewheel and rings.


What do you think?

Andy

Glennfordx4

If I were you I would hit the trade & for sale threads above, you can do a In Search Of ( ISO) post and see what some members here have to offer as you would most likely get a better deal there then on ebay. For the type of build you are doing it is a simple one as far as parts go. If this were mine (and making a 10 or 12 Speed friction shifted) I would want to do it up with Suntour parts of the same time frame which should be reasonably priced and easy to find either here or on FleaBay. Some of my favorites for this type of build are.

Crankset - Sakae (SR) or Sugino with either a 110 or 130 BCD ( bolt circle diameter). There are many models to chose from like the SR SX or the Sugino VP which are common and easy to find and most times reasonably priced + Chainrings in any combo you want are easy to get for them.

Derailleurs - Some of the best front & rear derailleurs of that time frame were made by Suntour & most shouldn't be hard to find, although pricing can be all over the place so look for the best deals. Models like the VX or V Luxe are bullet proof and pretty easy to find & most of all can be had at very reasonable prices. Other models that I would keep an eye out for are Cyclone & Blue Line ( BL ) which both look great and work even better, maybe others can chime in with some more models that you could choose from as there are many.

Shifters - Looking at your frame you are going to need shifters that clamp on to your Down Tube (DT) or go with stem or bar end models. I try to get the Shifters to match as close as possible to the model of derailleurs I am using, that isn't always easy to do but as long as you keep it Suntour within the same number of speeds you shouldn't have a problem especially if going with friction shifters.

If you have any questions about what will or won't work always come back here and ask, there are many great people on this forum with a wealth of knowledge that are willing to share. I hope you found some of this useful in your build.

Glenn

Andiroo99

Hi Glenn - this sounds like some GREAT advice, thanks!

I did not even notice the ISO stream but it does seem perfect. From the frame i can see marks where the clamp on down tube shifters were located - so i think i will go with these again.

I like idea of keeping the group set all the same and your the second or third person who has suggested to go the Suntour route.

I will post on ISO so you lets see what this turns up.

Best

Andy

old's'cool

You can hardly go wrong with any Suntour derailleurs. Since you have experience riding your Cross Check, kindly inform us what gearing it has that you actually use versus what you want to be different on your project bike, and we can much more accurately guide you toward gearing that will meet your goals for your current project.
Also, you should familiarize yourself with the topic of half-step gearing, decide if this is preferred, not preferred, or "right out" for your setup.

old's'cool

In my ignorance, I have successfully used the two notch tool on multiple occasions! I also managed to remove an early Shimano Dura Ace two notch freewheel with the Suntour tool, but I don't recommend this, as the diameter mis-match is significant, which means the tool can readily slip out and damage the notches when you're applying torque to remove the freewheel.

Andiroo99

Hi thanks for the help on this!!!

So the Surly Cross Check has :

Crankset 36 & 48t
Cassette HG-50 9-speed 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25t

To be honest i usually find i am on the smaller cog and only ever go up to 48T for the big downhills. I tend to stay in the mid range of cassette 80% of time.

Best

Andy

old's'cool

Useful info. It's late now, so I'll post again after processing, tomorrow. Can you clarify, on your project bike, you would like gears similar to those you use most of the time on your Cross Check?

Andiroo99

Hi Thanks for response:

Well, yes, kind of. I certainly dont want to replicate what i already have not least as the Surly is a great all day rider and luggage hauler. Despite the Mercian being a touring bike i would like it set up as a quicker, shorter buzz around town bike. For example on the Surly i have 135mm Schwalbe Marathons and on the Mercian i am going to want a faster and narrower road tire. Having said all of this i will use it a lot on canal type paths as well as uneven roads so i do need something robust.

Not that the above overly affect gearing but i thought i would color in the picture.

Thanks!

pastorbobnlnh 

25mm wide tires should be adequate for both roads and most hard packed paths.

If you want a fast 5 speed freewheel which sort of replicates the mid range of the Surley, I could build you a 15, 17, 19, 21, 23- 5 speed Suntour. Or something like this.

Andiroo99

Hi Bob

Two things:

1) Will this mean i need to find a suntour crank that more or less replicates the cogs on the surly crank? Do you have these as well or just the FW's?

2) How much for this? It seems like these go for around $15-20 on Ebay. Do you have a Pro Compe set?

Best

Andy

old's'cool

OK, let's talk about gear inches. Gear inches are the equivalent wheel diameter if the pedals were rigidly connected to the drive (rear) wheel with no gearing.
A 700C wheel is equivalent to a 26.7" diameter wheel, or close enough. Gear inches are arrived at by dividing the (front) chainring tooth count by the (rear) sprocket tooth count, and multiplying the result by the wheel diameter. So, for instance, on your Cross Check, if you are on the 36T chain ring and the 15T rear sprocket, your drive ratio is 36/15 = 2.4, and your gear inches are 2.4 * 26.7 = 64.
Can you use this formula & your experience riding the Cross Check, and tell us what the lowest & highest gear inches you want for your project bike, and also, what range in the middle you want the most ratios to choose from (e.g. lowest 50, highest 90, preferred middle range 60-75). This is important to know, because with a 2x5 combo, you can't have your cake and eat it too (but there are options to upgrade to 2x6, 3x5, or 3x6 without tearing up the frame or requiring non-period-plausible components).

Grand Bois

The Suntour derailers and shifters are great, but I'd go with a later twist tooth freewheel over a Suntour because they shift better. I've switched all of my derailer bikes over to Shimano UG for that reason. IRD and Sunrace also make them.

You are looking for freewheels, not cassettes. There is a big difference.

I wouldn't use anything narrower than a 28 mm tire for road and hardpack trails unless you're a flyweight.

frantik

120mm would be a good candidate for a single speed.. but you have hills so maybe not

old's'cool

2 out of my 3 bikes on the road have 120mm spacing and have no problem with hills.