Raleigh Cottered to Cotterless Conversion
 

Looking to ditch the cottered cranks on my 1970 raleigh grand prix. I've heard I can keep my bottom bracket cups and swap in a new spindle. Does anyone have a link to what spindle I should be looking for? Also, whats a decent, cheap, crankset that I could look for to replace the old heavy cottered crankset?

Thanks

bumpp

Sheldon Brown has a thread on doing that--try googling it. My recollection is that a series 5 spindle might work. But I think that the easiest and ultimately the cheapest and most satisfactory solution would be to install a threadless cartridge bottom bracket from Velo Orange, which doesn't rely on the Nottingham bottom bracket threading. I've never tried it, but have heard that it works well. Good luck!

You need a longer bb spindle due to Raleigh's longer (~71+mm) bb shell. An Italian-sized number 5 or a number 7 MTB spindle MAY work, but many are too big for the old Raleigh cups so it can be hit/or miss. Another option is Velo Orange's Grand Cru Cartridge bb but it's pricey (nothing like a Phil Wood bb though!).

Assuming you locate an JIS spindle you ought to opt for a JIS taper crank or your chainline will be messed up (cranks sitting too far out) so stay with a Japanese crank in that case. In my experience every crank is a little different though - so it could still be wrong, with worn square tapers sitting too far inboard.

Frankly, is is a LOT LESS FRUSTRATING/EXPENSIVE to stick with your lovely chromed-cottered crank. The weight difference is of little real consequence unless you are a weight weenie (in which case you would not be riding a GP).

auchencrow is right.

In general, almost every "modernization" attempt has some aspect that becomes a defining point in the rebuild.
At that point, you have to decide whether to go all out or simply accept some limitations. That point depends on budget, ability, and risk aversion.

It could be an appearance issue, functionality, or simply an offense to sensibilities, but it's usually something.

My hat is off to the folks who can patiently wait for and/or make things happen with the OEM or very close to OEM parts.
They get a bike that generally rides like the original, looks like the original, and keeps the intention close to the original builder's target.

It really depends on what you want.

Did you have any luck locating a new spindle (in the #5 or #7 mentioned above)? If so, where did you locate? Or did you end up replacing the entire BB? I have a cracked crank on the L side so conversion is a necessary pain to bring this bike back to life...

stay cottered my brutha

I remember mid 70's bike snobbery. Everybody looked at a bike's crankset first. If it was cotterless you were in. If it was cottered, you were out. If you had a one piece steel crank you were ostracized until you left town or died while the elites debated dust caps or no dust caps;-)

Here's some pretty handy information;
http://mountainbikers.hubsystems.com...s/chapter9.pdf
I might have an extra left crank around. Might not be an exact match.
How wide is your BB shell? If it's one of those Dutch GPs it might be a standard 68mm BB. My '70 Super Course happens to have a 70mm BB. There's plenty of Italian spindles that work for that.

I put this Shimano 600 (Arabesque) on my '68 SuperCourse back in 1980 something and it was easy. Maybe you need to look for an older crankset of around the same vintage as your Raleigh. You might have more luck matching thread sizes.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/IMG_4919.jpg

Eric

Well, the weight reduction will be about 600 grams or so. Not trivial. I swapped the steel cottered Stronglight crankset and BB for a (then optional, so that's how I 'justified' it) Campagnolo 151 Record set on my late 1950s road Paramount. Old parts: about 1450 grams. New ones: about 850, iirc. That's about 600 grams of rotating weight saved.

On older Raleighs, I have in some cases faced the BB down to about 68 mm, but make sure that will work structurally and still look OK on your particular frame before starting that, as it's non-reversible. I also re-tapped the 26tpi threads to 24 (it was on a $7 Salvation Army painted-with-a-brush-and-latex-house-paint Raleigh 3-speed), and ran an SR Royal double crank with just the 42 on the inside, on the 112 spindle, and that worked well for decades, so anything is possible.

Phil does also make 26tpi Raleigh rings, so you could try to find a new or used Phil BB and get a set of those. Then the 71 mm shell issue goes away too....

Well, the VO threadless BB works - I just did this last week. It's not cheap though. It also doesn't come with instructions, so it took me three tries :)

Here is the Sheldon Brown page someone mentioned where he lays out 3 options for BB replacement - http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.html

Good Luck!

You can get a Velo Orange threadless BB from Outside Outfitter for only $40 (http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/pm-...-brackets.aspx) which saves a whopping $26 off the price if you bought it direct from VO!

Also if you spend more than $111, shipping is free, so maybe you could find cranks you like as well...

Believe it or not, some of us actually like cottered cranks.

http://inlinethumb53.webshots.com/17...600x600Q85.jpg

Here's the Velo Orange BB installed on a '74 Grand Prix
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=221623

I used a Stronglight 122 spindle on my daughter's Raleigh Sports, but that just has a single chainring. A 125 would probably work for a double.

For what it's worth, I used a #7 JIS spindle and the old cups with a used set of SR 170 double cranks, on an early 70s GP, and it's been working perfectly for about a week now.

I am doing this same thing on a 70s Raleigh Sprite. I've got a sugino xd crankset that I intend to install as a single speed with the velo orange grand cru threadless bottom bracket. My only real question is which spindle length to buy to achieve the correct chain line. The crankset has holes/threads for a triple but I will only use one and ideally the outermost spot for the chainring. 71mm bb. Any tips?

Find the center of your rear axle and measure the distance from there to the middle gear in your freewheel (3rd on a 5 speed, 4th on a 7 speed, etc). Get the crank that puts your ring closest to that line.

I have a Bottom Bracket that will work and a Crankset. I 'll measure and take pics tonight.

http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/...x/P1010120.jpg

He hasn't posted in almost two years.

thats the one thing i love about my 3spd is the cottered cranks, what a b**** to service tho, stuck cotters, finding replacements, all that nonsense,
from now on , its a few drops of oil down the seat tube... thats it... but boy do they look pretty, all chromy and shiny, and a beautiful R nut to top it off, pure class

Maintenance is trivial when you own a good cotter press.

+1. Every job is easy when you have the right tool. The converse is true when you don't.

(I'm never successful in reusing R-nuts though!)