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If You Were Going to Have a CV Replica Frame Built for You — what would you ...?

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If You Were Going to Have a CV Replica Frame Built for You — what would you ...?

Old 07-23-11, 11:37 PM
  #26  
buldogge
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Personally, no offense intended, but I think it's a fool's errand.

There are so many vintage framesets out there floating around...Ebay, Craigslist, etc...either:

a) Find a vintage frame you like...for $1k you could pick up all kinds of stuff...Italian, Dutch, certainly Japanese...small US builder perhaps.

b) Get a custom frame built from the local gentleman...BUT...take advantage of the great modern tubesets that are now available...Spirit for Lugs, TT S3 or OX Plat., etc...or a little retro with Columbus MAX maybe!

Taking a cue from a bike you like is a great start...but...I would get a fitting done (perhaps Mr. Matsumoto does this as well, or has someone he recommends).

My .7584 JPY
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Old 07-24-11, 06:24 AM
  #27  
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Huffy.

No bent forks here folks.
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Old 07-24-11, 06:34 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by buldogge View Post
Personally, no offense intended, but I think it's a fool's errand.
Unless you cannot find what you want on the market (took me 4 years). Or, the original is more expensive (Confente).

And if I want to take advantage of modern materials, I'll buy a modern bike. I buy vintage bikes because I want to experience a vintage bike, their "warts" and all.
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Old 07-24-11, 06:44 AM
  #29  
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The OP's question was "If," not "Should." I answered hypothetically, as I didn't feel authorized to change his question.

Confidence is fairly high that I'll not be in this position. I have bikes that fit and do the same thing.
However, one can daydream, and often does, about a particlular frame and what tweaks would be cool, along with various builds.

Were I ordered to do so, and given the funds, I'd simply start with a builder from scratch and go from there.
I've no idea if I'd go for performance vs. aesthetics, so I'd probably have to get 3 or 4 or n+1 made.....

like iab, though, a modern bike would be in the mix. I'm still lusting after that DeRosa frame at nashbar.
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Old 07-24-11, 06:49 AM
  #30  
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I live in South Florida, so I would have Mike Terraferma build me my Dream bike. He's a good guy and a very talented frame builder. I would build Something from my favorite book, " The golden Age of Handbuilt Bicycles".

http://www.terrafermacycles.com/
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Old 07-24-11, 08:47 AM
  #31  
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Good call on the Campeur! Wow! I'll take one of these in 60x58cm please!,,,,BD

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rFnXZUx3Bw...0/DSCF1173.jpg
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Old 07-24-11, 09:51 AM
  #32  
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buldogge wrote:
Personally, no offense intended, but I think it's a fool's errand.
Certainly no offense taken. I've just finished reading a memoir of the Battle of Britain. Two pilots are talking. The Australian says to the Glasgwegian, "I know you blokes like to call a spade a spade, but in Australia we call it a bloody shovel!"

Of course I think that you have a point. But then again I don't want another bike that just does not fit me the way I want it too. And measure my carcass all day long and it is only a rough guide to what I can climb aboard and ride. So I started thinking like this.

*Lets say I find a frame in Europe (the last one of mine came from Hungry.
And lets say I have get lucky and fine a really cool frame for ___________ $200

* Shipping by could cost between $130 — $190 ... so let's say __________ $160

* Insurance? __________________________________________________ $ 15

* The paint is usually pretty rough. I've repaired paint on my bikes but let
us say this time I can't. Last quote I had was in Yen but say $ _______ $ 250

* It has to go south to Osaka, so I pay more freight ... so ______________ 50

* If it French, a local mechanic thinks I can get by with replacing the parts
that cannot be used from my Trek for about _________________________ $200

________
$ 875

And it still has to go to the frame shop to check the alignment in the dropouts, the head set pressed in, the BB chased and refaced.

Now, I am not saying that you are wrong, but say for $1000 I get a frame that is built from a modern tube set with decent lugs (Matusumoto san builds Keirin bikes), quarenteed never to have been crashed and is totally free of dings, internal rust, and maybe sloppy brazing that I could not see in the photos. And ... it fits as good as it gets.

And in reply to your comment, Matsumoto san does have a good mock up frame. Except for Keirn crash repairs, all his work is custom ordered by an individual.

Maybe its just me, but 56 frames just don't seem to be in abundance. Certainly not here in Japan. I did find some bikes I really liked, but the sellers refused to deal with buyers in Asia. Others refused to sell outside the lower 48.

If I were to wait long enough — look hard enough, I would find something. But I would not pay anything like a thousand dollars for it — especially as I have no opportunity to examine it in person.

But you have a point. I am weighing options and its kind of fun.
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Old 07-24-11, 12:37 PM
  #33  
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I have a project like this going on now with local builder Jeff Lyon. Not a "replica", but a period style race frame using a Cinelli stamped lug set, dual plate style fork crown, and all the Italian styling cues I really like from my favorite period which is the 1960's through the early 70's.

I've waffled on the build ideas many times, starting with it being built up with a 1st generation Record gruppo and all period correct '59-'60 parts. Then going with a more modern Chorus 10 speed gruppo. But have settled on a mix of mostly Nuovo Record and early 70's vintage parts, with concessions for modern pedals and clincher rims as I really do want to ride this bike. It will also be modifying all of the parts to show off my drillium work.



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Old 07-24-11, 12:49 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Otis View Post
I



The front of the lugs appear like what Galmozzi did, and others perhaps. Looks like fun.
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Old 07-24-11, 12:51 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
... Or, the original is more expensive (Confente).
Sometimes one has to pay the market price to get on the E ticket ride.
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Old 07-24-11, 01:45 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
The front of the lugs appear like what Galmozzi did, and others perhaps. Looks like fun.
I did the cut-outs to resemble the detail on classic Galmozzi and Ideor Assos, as they were simple enough for me not to scew-up and I always liked the look. I did matching cuts on lower part of the fork crown as well.

Jeff has done a ton of work on what was a really rough set of stamped lugs, including adding a "top" to the seat lug for that 50's look with no recess, and adding the long lower tang to the seat-lug 'ala early Masi's etc.
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Old 07-24-11, 02:04 PM
  #37  
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I wpuld on the same boat as velognome: have something build that stems from a died out (but fun) branch of bike design. Like a highwheeler (can't find one for cheap and they are pretty conspicuous ), a bugatti bike or a wire framed rig.
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Old 07-24-11, 06:28 PM
  #38  
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I am of two or three minds on this.

On the one hand, I am totally on board with iab's desire to recreate a pre-war something-or-other. What it would be for me, I can only guess.

On the other hand, I also agree with Neal that it just makes a whole lot more sense to pick up something used and see how it rides.

But once we start discussing the frame sized to "fit me perfectly" I become uncomfortable. I know enough about bicycle fit to know that I know nothing about bicycle fit, and this makes me wonder if I don't have a deeper understanding of bicycle fit than the guys who claim to understand it. Those guys [I prefer to leave them nameless, but feel free to insert someone's name here] all appear to start out with certain parameters and assumptions and go on to design bicycles around them, without ever testing the assumptions; with the result that didn't/don't know as much as they pretend(ed) to. So when you say "fits me perfectly" I have to insert an assumption that we're going with a certain size of crank arm and a certain wheel size just because that's what bikes of that vintage used, which means we're going to dispense with the idea of "perfect fit" in favor of a period-appropriate fit, and once we've made those compromises, I get to wondering: what's the point?

"What's the point" of course sounds like a rhetorical question, but that is not how I mean it. I only mean, be clear about why you want this thing that you want. Your reasons, whatever they are, are good enough for me. But put them on the table. I, for one, don't know why I would want this thing, and can only conclude that I don't want it very badly.
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Old 07-24-11, 06:52 PM
  #39  
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Or....cuz you can, you want to and it's really not that big of a deal anyway
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Old 07-24-11, 07:00 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Velognome View Post
Or....cuz you can, you want to and it's really not that big of a deal anyway
Hmm. So I'm riding this repro vintage bike complete with 16" pump pegs and, having recently tried and failed to pump up my tires with the 16" frame pump, I'm thinking this frame pump is pretty useless. What should i do with it? Hmm. I could stick it in that guy's spokes. I mean, I can, I want to, and it's not really that good a frame pump anyway.
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Old 07-25-11, 08:31 AM
  #41  
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the only classic bike designs i'd like to have custom reproduced for me would be a Hetchins or a Thanet. however, due to the collectability of the real ones, replicas of those bikes are looked down on. and while they are gorgeous (in my eyes), from a mechanical perspective they are not the best designs.

if I was to have a custom made in the USA, it would be an Icarus or a Johnny Coast. outside of the USA, i'd turn to a Japanese builder, probably Cherubim or Grand Bois.

All-in-all, though, I'm not that interested in a custom-made bike. I've been plenty satisfied with both the vintage and new frames I've built up over the years. my body proportions are pretty normal so it's not hard for me to find a bike that fits. I've also learned that when you have a super fancy, rare bike, you don't ride it as much. my completely restored, period-correct Merckx 7-11 Corsa hangs on the wall most of the time, reminding me of that.

ultimately, when it comes to custom frames, i'd rather invest the money in a class like the Yamaguchi school and make some frames for myself. that, to me, is the most satisfying custom bike I could ever own.
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Old 07-25-11, 09:44 AM
  #42  
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If I were going to build a 'repro' frame, and I have thought about it I'd probably
model after 1st run Carlsbad Masi. Yah, I've been sipping the coolaid.
The other one I'd like to see would be the mid 50's Masi that I posted here a few
weeks back, Special Corsa with twin plate fork etc.

I've actually talked to local builder here about doing either of those, he has some old
henry james and fischer lugs which I'd love to use, he also has a nice Masi Special out
of the Vigorelli that could be used to model after.

Now I just need time and money!

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Old 08-06-11, 11:50 PM
  #43  
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Well, just to put a cap on this thread .... I spotted a 56x56 Woodrupwith vertical rear drop-outs on eBay and speared it on a "buy now" deal. The price was right, and the shipping from Europe very reasonable. Also the Yen has a lot of clout these days ... and the resident dragon was in a good mood.

What more reason to abandon the idea of shelling out for a custom frame.? Woodrups have been built by mostly three people — two of them family members. By hand of course. I've been in touch with Mr Woodrup and he has assured me that when I get the frame and find the serial number, he will tell me when it was built and who built it. And they can supply the original decals for 18 quid. I have to paint the frame.

This one does not have the fillagreed lugs. But the frame, forks and stays are all 531. And the triangle at least is 531-C. It may not get the top bling components that it deserves. Most of the parts will come off the 54x54 Trek 560 which is going to be turned into a single speed errand-boy runabout. Some nice parts, but a sort of mish-mash mash and not the originals as applied at Woodrup. Mind you, most were made to order and came with lots of stuff.

Given tons of time, I'll post the build on another thread. I'm pretty excited!
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Old 12-19-11, 02:26 PM
  #44  
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I would get a hard tail no front suspension trek 7000 and put some nice slick 26" wheels on it and put some panniers and a front bag on it thats what I am doing...
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Old 12-19-11, 09:28 PM
  #45  
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[QUOTE][

Originally Posted by Velognome
Or....cuz you can, you want to and it's really not that big of a deal anyway



Posted rhm

Hmm. So I'm riding this repro vintage bike complete with 16" pump pegs and, having recently tried and failed to pump up my tires with the 16" frame pump, I'm thinking this frame pump is pretty useless. What should i do with it? Hmm. I could stick it in that guy's spokes. I mean, I can, I want to, and it's not really that good a frame pump anyway.
/QUOTE]

Whew...glad you didn't...........right?
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