Accepted definition of "crankset"
 

I have a misunderstanding with an eBay seller over the definition of the term "crankset."

I bid on (and won) a "Campagnolo Super Record Pista 175 Crank Set with Box" which included a 52T "SR" chainring. I assumed "SR" meant Super Record, but it turned out to be a Sakae/Ringyo (SR) Royal LA-5 52T chainring made in Japan.

The seller claims the term "Campagnolo Super Record Pista 175 Crank Set with Box" refers to the crank arms themselves.

I've always thought "crankset" meant left and right crank arms and chainring, and the definition on Wikipedia and other web sources would appear to confirm that. It's a U.K. seller, so I wonder if the definition is different on the other side of the pond.

He offered to refund my money if I return it, but I've decided to just chalk it up as a misunderstanding and leave him positive feedback. I just wondered if I'm being unreasonable expecting a Campagnolo Super Record crank set to include a Campy chainring instead of an SR chainring made in Japan.

I thought they called them "chainset" in the UK.

I think they're cranks, chainrings and associated bolts. Washers/spacers when applicable.

That's kinda lame of the seller not to mention that the chainring wasn't Campagnolo.

I thought the only difference between Record and Super Record cranks was the rings? I expect a crankset to come with rings, otherwise they should be crank arms.

It sounds like he disclosed it, even though in a sneaky underhanded kind of way.

But I do agree a crankset includes rings, and if he had not disclosed that they were SR rings, you'd have a case.

You know, I never thought about it, but consider "crankset" to mean crank arms and chain rings, with bolts.
Many modern "cranksets" should also include the BB cups, also, or the crankset is near worthless.

I would have expected exactly that, a Super Record crankset with chainrings. Any deviation should have been noted.

I myself have been the victim of a BF seller, who advertised a 53/39 crankset, and when it arrived, was a compact, and worthless to me.
I went back to the post immediately upon receiving the compact crankset, and he'd already removed that part of his ad.
He said he "didn't know any better." From his other posts, it appears he probably did. No biggie, just no more trading with him.
I've put him on the ignore list, and things are just peachy.

I think he's gaming you regardless of whether he's "technically" correct. I'd file a complaint with ebay, they'll decide you pay return shipping and he refunds cash.

If I were selling a Super Record crankset with sakae ringyo chainrings, I'd be VERY careful and specific about pointing out that the chainrings were Sakae Ringyo. He's playing linguistic nuance games and I'd send it back.

That's brinksmanship. I like to think a crankset includes a BB too..

I agree

+1. Although this has fallen into disuse, including by me, I'm not a crusader. But it at least means the arms and rings in current usage. In his case, he should have called out that the chainrings were a different brand. I could see having the title of the auction being "Campagnolo Cranks" and then clearly calling out in the description that the rings were another brand.

Well, I'll go against the grain. I always thought "crankset" meant "a set of cranks". Seems to me I even remember getting a box containing a new pair of cranks w/o chainrings, and the description on the box said "crankset". I don't expect a crankset to include rings, and I sure don't expect it to come with a BB.

Having said that, the "SR chainring" bit strikes me as underhanded.

Thanks, all, for the feedback. I decided to just "let it go"; it's not worth getting into a tizzy over.

Out of curiosity, I just looked up how they have this categorized on the QBP site. They list left and right crankarms, with no chainrings, as "crank arm sets." They list the units that have both crankarms and chainrings as "cranksets." There's another category called "cranks/bottom bracket set" that includes the applicable bottom bracket (most are the newer outboard bearing type), left and right crankarms, and on most of these they include chainrings but on some they don't.

I guess I think of crank-set as being the two crank arms, which generally come with rings, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see crank arms for sale as a "crank-set" without rings. As for what a couple others have mentioned, I don't expect it to come with a BB. In fact I'd be very(pleasantly) surprised to receive a BB with a "crank-set." In any case that seems like the person was intentionally playing word games unless there was a clear picture in the ad. Even then it seems a bit shady. I don't think I'd bother returning it, but mostly because it seems like the rings are the less important part compared to the crank arms. I wouldn't leave positive feedback, though. I'd leave none or neutral.

Scooper. I just want to know where you are riding 175 Pista cranks.

I assume everything on eBay is shady, and if there are no pictures, or blurry ones, I won't bid until clarified.
edit:
I looked up the auction, and though not spelled out, the chainring was clearly not Campagnolo. The pictures show that.

Chalk it up to a lesson learned.

San Jose's Hellyer Park Velodrome. Waterford is restoring the 1940 Paramount track frameset I picked up on eBay, and I've now got all the bits to build it up.

Yep; a lesson learned. I've bought lots of stuff on eBay, and have never had an experience like this before. Maybe I've just been lucky. I'll be more careful from now on.

When Campagnolo boxes them they include:
both L and R crank arms
chainring(s), mounted on the arm with bolts
dustcaps
no BB unit
Box is labeled "Crankset" and specifies arm length and teeth combinations
(at least the ones I have do)

I pointed that out to the seller:

"In Campagnolo catalogs, what I call a crankset is referred to as "chainwheel set" and the set includes the crank arms and a chainring with a choice in number of teeth. In the 1968 catalog 16, for example, the Record pista chainwheel set p/n 1051 consists of p/n 757 (right crank), p/n 758 (left crank), and p/n 760 chainring."

Them is long cranks for a track bike, but you are a big boy.

The picture did clearly show it wasn't a Campy ring. Calling it SR, which is true, just muddied it.

IMO his failure to disclose the non Campag rings is deception. But what are you going to do? He offered a refund so he has CHA. Crankset IME is arms, rings, and BB. Your decision is probably the best one.

My late-to-the-party $.02:

-- "crankset" means everything in between, but not including, the pedals and the bottom bracket.
-- Advertising a "Campy Super record" crankset with an chainring identified only as "SR" when it is a Sekae Ringup is deceptive. Maybe not intentionally depective (especially in light of the photo), but deceptive nonetheless.
-- OFG is right - 175mm is long for track usage. But he's also right that Scooper is a tall guy - almost as tall as I am. A lot better looking and far, far nicer, though.

Well, there are no "Super Record Pista" cranksets that I am aware of, they are "Record" and come with "Record" pista rings. SR is a brand, mis-communication I can see but deception is stretch.

BS, Rich. :p

Don't bet on it, Stan. I've known me a lot longer than you have. :D

i'm assuming this is the ad:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-Super...8730%26ps%3D50

The ad is extremely clear about what you get. The only possible confusion is the "SR" chainring, which might be interpreted as "Super Record".. but "SR" IS the brand name of the ring. You can see the SR logo and ROYAL-LA-5 in the pictures as well..

Sometimes that is the best policy, I have had to do that a few times.
Only once returned an item, and the seller must have known too, as he made no fuss about it. It did cost me the return postage.

In the days of yore, crankset included cranks, chainring(s) chainring bolts, complete bottom bracket, crank fixing bolts and dust caps.

Later the bottom bracket got left off the laundry list often.

Today, crank set often means a pair of crank arms!?

The SR terminology error is pretty barrister like. That written, the image must of had some clues? I have seen often Campagnolo crank sets (less bottom bracket) on ebay where one could tell the chainrings (or at least one of them) were replicants.

There is a slow and steady lower common denominator creeping in, kind of goes with the concept of "bicycle" being a bike without pedals. 25 years ago, a bicycle Included pedals.