I've often wondered if the current mass manufacturers favor carbon and aluminum because it allows more profit per bike, or because shorter lifespan means more product sales. I thought for a minute that it might be about performance, but quickly dismissed that.

I've often wondered that myself, I'd love to see the cost of manufacture for a carbon frame. I wouldn't be surprised if some have a 2000% markup. Brazing steel pipes together to make a frame seems much less high-tech and exotic than the magic of carbon fiber, I'm sure the manufacturers exploit that popular opinion. To me a carbon frame reads as burned cloth dipped in epoxy and laminated like paper mache . . . :lol:

Don't know for sure about the Tour, but Ballan rode a steel Wilier into 3rd place at 2006 Paris - Roubaix:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/...roubaix_bikes1

Gary, like you i just started again after a 20 yr hiatus from riding and am loving every minute of the attention my '86 Guerciotti full SR gets. I carefully restored it over the winter and she is my pride and joy. I've never heard anything negative so far, but if I do, I'll be sure to ask them if their bike ever got them to 3rd place in districts and a trip to the national championship. If it did, they should be riding it, if it didn't, why not?

I'm in Cary, BTW. Let me know if you plan to do any riding around here.

Really? Most major manufacturers still have aluminum bikes as their mid-range models. Trek, Giant, Specialized all offer aluminum models. I do think steel is making somewhat of a comeback but as far as mainstream it is still CF at the top end and aluminum in the middle/low end. I have never seen a steel road bike in any of the mainstream bike shops I have been in for years.

You're right, aluminum is still alive and well at the lower price points, moreso than steel. One of the brands our shop carries is Jamis, and one reason we like their line is they have continued to offer steel framed bikes at every price point up to about $3500. But they also do plenty of aluminum and aluminum/carbon frames, as well as higher end all carbon bikes.

As for the OP's question, I think Indurain's Pinarello in 1994 was tig welded steel. In 1993 for sure.

I've never been criticized by a guy on CF in full kit. Or a guy on aluminum in full kit, while rolling.
Then again, you'd have to see my Primal tarantula full kit. I think it scares them off.

I have had a few make comments about my bikes while it was on the rack at triathlons.
I always grin. Those are the same guys who win most often, then come around with Coors Light.
We get along, then we all walk over to the guy with the Project One, and ooh and ahh.

Harshest comment I ever got was from one of the "hot moms," a local group of women who wear matching leopard-skin tank jerseys on group rides, always ride in a pace line of their own, and sometimes sport tails and/or ears. One of them looked at my Paramount as I went by and said "I used to have one of them. That's......old." I said "and so am I, my dear, so am I....." FWIW, they really liked the pink/yellow Ironman 2 weeks ago. If I had about 6-7 of them in their size, I think we could work a deal....

As for the OP's question, I don't know, but when Indurain raced the Pinarellos, I began to think about riding again.

That's my story Gary - I quit riding in the very early 1990s and started riding again in 2009 after a 17+ year hiatus. Despite being 56 years young, I can still blow away the noob poseurs on their flashy carbon fiber frames with aero clincher wheels while riding my "heavy" 1980s steel-framed Ciocc with sew-ups. (Admittedly, I think riding sew-ups gives me a slight advantage, but in the end "its the motor" that really counts.)

Having said that, based on what I've read the riders of the TdF really don't have much choice in what they ride other than chosing between certain models within a particular builder/sponsor's product line. Carbon fiber has certain properties that make it very attractive as a frame material in terms of vibration damping/stiffness/light weight - plus it is still less labor-intensive to assemble a CF frame despite all those little carbon fiber pieces than it is to hand-braze/file a lightweight steel frame. Bottom line: higher performance/higher profit margin with CF.

Still, I prefer the ride qualities of my "vintage" Ciocc over a modern CF/aero/index-shifting "wonder bike". "Steel is real." YMMV.

What insult? I was describing something that happened to me? And, you know, presuming that you know anything about my mindset from my short post is just not quite right, friend. If you're out on the road and pass me, I'll smile and perhaps try to hang on. If you pass and lay on some remarks about my age or equipment (or my kit!) I'll smile, shake my head, and watch you and your arrogance disappear in the distance. If you pass me and say "hey, for an old guy, you still look good in lycra", I'll buy you a beer.

ciocc_cat and others that mentioned riding sew-ups. I was thinking that these were still the tire to run. Have clinchers supplanted tubulars among the fast crowd? I can't imagine why, but like I said, I am way out of touch.

-Gary

I have steel bikes (4 vintage, 1 modern), I have carbon bikes (2). I have wooden boats (2), I have fiberglass boats (2). I have 100 year old shot guns (6), I have brand new shotguns (2). I like them all, for different reasons.

Me, on my vintage steel bike, can maintain a similar pace to my modern CF bike. The difference, the modern bike has no soul. It's an appliance. My wooden boats speak to me, though both are current vintage, wood has soul-fiberglass, well it could just as well be a bathtub, though both of the FG boats are quite attractive. The antique shotguns, if only they could talk......and they kill a bird just as dead as a modern one.

There is more to it than steel vs. CF or aluminum. It's the intangible, at least to those that do not know. The difference between a Porsche or a Ferrari and a...well nothing made in the US or Japan. Maybe a Lexus and Mercedes or BMW. The European car has soul, a tradition, a feeling, the Asian car is very, very good at what it does, maybe better and almost certainly less costly to maintain, but without the feeling of intimacy that the European car has.

To me that is the difference between a steel bike and a CF bike. And yes, bring the steel back to TdF!

Earlier this year I got hands on a TVM Gazelle 731OS ex Laurant Roux. Circa 1998. Don't know whether it was actually used in the TdF, but I know Gazelle stayed with steel quite long.

I never followed bicycle racing like many here do, so I still find it amazing that members can name bike racers like, well, I can name major league baseball players.

Since there are so many members into racing bikes here, even in the C&V forums -- are there forum members who have raced in these elite races? Are there some famous (well, within the cycling community) people inhabiting BF? Let's hear who they are!

Wooden boats - great analogy. It's the soul of the builder reflected in the object.