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cinelli copy?

Old 08-29-11, 02:35 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by MetinUz View Post
Actually, Windsor's did have 26.8, Cinelli should have 26.2 or 27.2.
My bad - especially since I owned a Cinelli SC.
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Old 08-29-11, 02:56 PM
  #27  
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this bike was on craigslist for a week and it was bought as a Windsor,but as I started looking at it some things were just really nicer?the lugs are lined by brush in gold original and the bike never had paint at all.it was clearcoated originally.the seat lug particularly stood out,if you look at the top with post removed the points are still there and even Raysport didn't have that touch.it has the very tigh geometry and the 1060 drop outs in the year fully sloping fork crown.i'm pulling things off tonight I'll get a better look then,thanks stay tuned,Brad
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Old 08-29-11, 02:56 PM
  #28  
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hmmm...

If I just saw a pic of the BB shell, I would vote Cinelli...

Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
Agree - but there's the bottom bracket issue. Plus, on the Raysports I've seen with the vertical dropouts, the junctions are done differently - they're beveled and not quite as nicely executed.
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Old 08-29-11, 03:10 PM
  #29  
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How wide is the BB shell? I *think* Cinelli would be Italian, 70mm and Windsor would be 68. Someone with more knowledge may come in and correct me, however.
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Old 08-29-11, 04:19 PM
  #30  
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If it's a Cinelli, it should have a 26.2 post.
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Old 08-29-11, 04:27 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by vjp View Post
hmmm...

If I just saw a pic of the BB shell, I would vote Cinelli...
Here is BB picture of my '70s Windsor. No serial stamp, but looks similar otherwise.

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Old 08-29-11, 05:15 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
How wide is the BB shell? I *think* Cinelli would be Italian, 70mm and Windsor would be 68. Someone with more knowledge may come in and correct me, however.
Windsor Pros were Italian threaded.
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Old 08-29-11, 05:36 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
Windsor Pros were Italian threaded.
And here comes the guy with more knowledge to set me straight. Thanks.
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Old 08-29-11, 05:39 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by MetinUz View Post
Here is BB picture of my '70s Windsor. No serial stamp, but looks similar otherwise.

Chainstay bridge reinforcements are done differently, though, and the OP's bike has a SN on the BB (as you note). Also, the sockets where the chainstays are inserted into the BB shell are different. The chainstay bridge treatment and the BB sockets where the chainstays are inserted - at least from the angles provided - look more like the pics I have of my SC. (Then there's the sloping crown, and the small cutout in the seatlug.)

Last edited by Picchio Special; 08-29-11 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 08-29-11, 05:56 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
I have watched "The Matrix" enough times to be able to actually read the code, and that definitely looks like a Cinelli.
i lold
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Old 08-29-11, 06:17 PM
  #36  
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Seat lug cut out is only Cinelli feature I see that is different than some of the homages of the era. Seat post is reeking of Windsor.
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Old 08-29-11, 06:36 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
Seat lug cut out is only Cinelli feature I see that is different than some of the homages of the era. Seat post is reeking of Windsor.
Raysport had that seat lug cutout. The other thing that matches with Raysport is the lack of crimping on the insides of the chainstays - OP's bike seems to lack that feature, whereas Cinelli and Windsor both seem to have had it. I have yet to see a Raysport without the "R" cutout in the BB shell though - perhaps they're out there (along with the bit nicer finishing on the dropout junctions). Don't know what the timespan for Raysport was.
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Old 08-29-11, 06:41 PM
  #38  
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Some photos of my Windsor Pro, for comparison.

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Old 08-29-11, 07:08 PM
  #39  
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Given the seat post size, and rear drop out, I think we can all agree it is not a Cinelli, most likely a Raysport, or another 'homage' bike (counterfeit seems too judgmental).

Most likely not a Cinelli.
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Old 08-29-11, 07:12 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
Given the seat post size, and rear drop out, I think we can all agree it is not a Cinelli, most likely a Raysport, or another 'homage' bike (counterfeit seems too judgmental).

Most likely not a Cinelli.
Agree - based precisely on the two items you name. They're pretty telling. Taken together, pretty much a slam-dunk.
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Old 08-29-11, 07:31 PM
  #41  
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The bike in the OPs picture looks like a windsor to me. Well one of the good ones.

Many windsors have been sold as cinelli's from what a friend with a vintage shop told me time ago.
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Old 08-29-11, 10:01 PM
  #42  
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Ok no new photos waiting for the light of day,but the bb is 35 x 1 french? looks like a royce type with both cups using a spanner? the plot thickens!!
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Old 08-30-11, 08:19 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by ultraman6970 View Post
The bike in the OPs picture looks like a windsor to me.
Windsors had the serial number in the seat lug, as referenced in the pictures posted of one. Also, Windsors never had the oval holes in the seat lug.

I've never seen a Cinelli with vertical dropouts, but it might exist. Cino liked to try things...

Last edited by dbakl; 08-30-11 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 08-30-11, 09:01 AM
  #44  
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Seat tube could always have been reamed...
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Old 08-30-11, 10:33 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
Agree that the Raysports I've seen have the "R" cutout in the BB shell - and that looks like a 70's Cinelli shell to me - though they did have the vertical rear drops. And if the post is 26.8, that's a pretty big clue. I think it's a Cinelli, though I haven't been able to track one down pics of one with vertical rear dropouts.
Usually, a 26.8 post on a frame like this equals a Windsor. I vote Windsor. Maybe Windsor with a used Cinelli fork as a replacement. Or a Raysport, but that's less likely, unless the post is the wrong size....
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Old 08-30-11, 10:35 AM
  #46  
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cinelli? fork crown

here is a good shot of the fork crown,also the underside showing the reinforcement
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Old 08-30-11, 10:36 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Brad Sasher View Post
some important questions and fact,seat post 26.8? I have been dirested to raysport,but it has no cut out in the bottom bracket and raysport was 27.2 seat post.the bike has alot of good parts on it,some french things like Mavic 360 black stem and malliard competition/weinnman concave rims.patent 72 Campagnolo rear ,Huret Jubilee front,Zeus Seat pillar,Galli brakeset and a spectacular Saavedra crank with black drilled even each tooth,in perfect shape!! look like a royce titanium bottom bracket,spanish olympic 664 pedals,sloping fork crown all chrome?anty thoughts are appreciated and again sorry about the picture posting.regards Brad
The Raysports that had the vertical dropouts had washers brazed to the inside of the rear dropouts to increase their thickness to that of a forged dropout (which was a nice touch, imo). Does yours have that? If so, I'd say for sure it is a Raysport. If not, I'd rule out Raysport and go back to Windsor. The same shop (Raul Garza's)made both, by the way, so that's why they are so similar.

Last edited by 753proguy; 08-30-11 at 10:49 AM. Reason: corrected spelling of 'increase' (oops!)
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Old 08-30-11, 10:38 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
Windsors of course did not have full-sloping crowns or 26.8 posts.

I believe they also lacked the little cutout in the side of the seatlug, and had different SN placement from the OP's bike.

A better pic of the fork crown might help - looks like the Cinelli version, but the pics are so poor ...
Windsors do have 26.8 posts, actually. That's a good way to ID one. The other is the fastback seatstay cluster's detailing, but that's more subtle.
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Old 08-30-11, 10:41 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
How wide is the BB shell? I *think* Cinelli would be Italian, 70mm and Windsor would be 68. Someone with more knowledge may come in and correct me, however.
A Raysport would be about 66-68 mm, and BSC. They tended to be narrow. I can't recall if my Windsor was Italian-thread, but I think so (So 70 mm).

Last edited by 753proguy; 08-30-11 at 10:51 AM. Reason: corrected spelling of 'Windsor' (sheesh...).
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Old 08-30-11, 10:48 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by 753proguy View Post
Windsors do have 26.8 posts, actually. That's a good way to ID one. The other is the fastback seatstay cluster's detailing, but that's more subtle.
There is no serial number on the seat lug or near it and did you all see that the bottom bracket and I assume all threads are french? 35 x 1?
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