If your eBay seller does not have their own credit card processing arrangement, the only way you will be able to pay for an eBay purchase with a credit card is through PayPal. If you truly want to avoid PayPal, perhaps the seller will accept a personal check or money order (although you may have to wait until it has cleared the bank before the item ships).

Personally, I have not had any problems with PayPal. They do skim some off the top for their efforts, but that's the price you pay for the convenience they offer.

The only reason eBay gets away with charging those fees to the general individual is because most people are too stupid to realize that they're giving eBay and PayPal an 18% cut - until:

A. They see how much PayPal cut from their profit when they transfer funds
B. They get the bill for the final value fee. This one is a beaut, because it's monthly billing cycle allows people to forget it exists.

Case in point:
I went to see a package of camera equipment - locally - that the seller had previously listed on eBay for $900 with free shipping. He failed to get a bid. The 18% fees would have knocked his net profit from $900 (net, if he were to sell off eBay) to $738, and $15 for a large Priority box would cut his net down to $723.

Would it surprise you if I said he had no interest in budging one penny under $900 once we got to negotiations? The discussion went something like this:

"What's your rock bottom price?"
"$900."
"So you'd be willing to take a net profit of $725 if I had bid on this thing on eBay, but you refuse to take the same $725 in cash if I buy it from your driveway?"
"Best I can do is $900."
"Thank you for your time. Goodbye."

Takes all kinds. Thanks to him, I've found a better deal :roflmao:

-Kurt

Exactly!

Not sure how you made up those numbers, but eBarf doesn't take 18%, it's more like 9-10% total. If you get paid via PayPal, maybe 12-14% total.

His gross sale would be $900, not his "net profit." Huge difference. You sound like someone that would talk about 300% profit. Mathematically impossible; you can't make more than 100% profit (if you got something for free, then all of your money that you get for selling that thing is profit, i.e. 100% of it). You can have 300% markup, that's different. And gross profit isn't anywhere near the same as net profit. Net profit is often negative. And 'large Priority boxes' are free. The PO gives them away. Packing materials cost something, but not more than a buck or so, typically. Heck, bike boxes are free at my LBS. I've purchased the same frame boxes that Waterford uses, and those were $5 per box in quantity. Darn good boxes, too (the best, imo).

The reason people continue to sell on eBay is that people usually pay too much for stuff on eBay, on average, so the extra $$ you get in selling price vs. elsewhere covers all of the annoying fees and packing materials. Shipping is often a profit center for eBay sellers (sometimes THE profit center, which annoys the crap out of me, so I don't buy from those sellers).

Just because his stuff didn't sell the first time for $900 doesn't mean that it won't sell for $1000+ next week when he re-lists it. Such is eBarf. Nutty, yet interesting....

That's the percentage being bandied about on the PayPal forums by the regulars. Frankly, I've got more important things to do than calculate PayPal fees to the penny. I only use the service for hobby-related transactions, and hobbies aren't a priority.

IF? eBay made PayPal mandatory for all but a few item categories back in 2008.

His net profit would be $900 if he had sold the camera to a local buyer for $900 cash, which is what I was referring to. His gross sale would be $900 if he had sold the camera via eBay, and the net would have been $900 - (fees + shipping + all other expenses).

I'm not willing to discuss this statement until the USPS lets me ship these boxes for free.

It depends on the item, but this is generally true; yes.

A. He's been trying to sell the lot for $1,000 since last month. No takers.
B. Ten minutes after I posted above, I found that he had listed the same lot - a week prior - for an $800 starting bid - and failed to sell it. That's right; he jacked the price by $100 a week later. (Chalk one idiot point up for me for not finding that completed auction until now).

-Kurt

I am pretty new to selling on Ebay, but as I learn bikes better I find the only way to get a good deal is to sell stuff on Epay. No offense to the forum but I have to list something much below Ebay prices to even get a tiny bit of interest. so for example, I sold a set of shimano tri color downtube shifters for $50, I don't think I would have gotten half of that here. so 50- 18 percent= $42, I am not sure if your 18 percent includes shipping but I charge shipping plus 2 dollars for my time. so my net profit on $50 is $44 or 88 percent. Now if we are splitting hairs lets see what else Ebay gives you. I don't need a store front, ebay takes care of that, Ebay sends out Email reminders to the people watching my item, markets my item, and has a huge multinational market presence, ebay hosts my auction page. once paypal takes over I have a secure way to get the money from the buyer (you know credit cards take a percentage of a sale too right?). not to mention Ebay subsidizes my shipping cost to the tune of $70 cents on a small flat rate box.

No kidding on that. A lot of times for frames/wheels, I list them on the Wash DC (read, high traffic) CL for somewhat less than I would expect on ebay to avoid shipping hassle. Almost invariably, I get no love, except from lowball scammers. Then I'll list on ebay, get 50% or more than my CL price. More than a few times, the ebay buyer has ended up being somebody local, does a local pickup.

Go figure...

The other reason I like ebay is that I don't even have to think about setting a price, which itself is a headache. I just list stuff at .99 cents, no reserve, and let the crowd sort it out. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised, sometimes somebody gets a raging great deal, but overall I think it is a fair system. I certainly don't begrudge ebay and paypal their cut. And due to my recent burst of apparently ethical sales, I regained some top rated/power seller status that reduces final value fees by 20%. They also offered me health insurance...

That cut in final value fees is making me think it may be time to auction off a couple of expensive guitars I don't use much, including a minty 1965 Gibson L5C. I've thought about sending this to one of the big guitar consignment joints, but they charge 20% plus I have to pay to ship it to them and who knows when it will eventually sell. Plus, those joints nickel and dime you to death on prepping the guitar for sale, they always want to nick you for leveling the frets and other stuff.

Anyhow, I'm still pretty small beer as an ebay seller, makes me wonder what kind of deals they offer the guys who are doing thousands or tens of thousands of sales per year.

I suppose some of the hurdles ebay/paypal set up for low volume sellers is an annoyance, but here is a secret - Ebay really doesn't want/need the business from the onesie/twosie occasional seller. I'm positive that the overall buyer satisfaction averages less with this kind of seller, just from them being noobs, not from any malicious intent. But they sort of have to to allow this as a portal for future mass sellers.

I'm also with the previous poster about selling on forums. I do it occasionally for somebody who clearly needs an unusual part or is in a jam. But as a routine thing, setting prices is too much of a headache and leaves me feeling like I'm either giving stuff away in order to be a nice guy or I'm taking somebody to the cleaners who really needs an item.

So I'm obviously in the camp that approves of ebay. I just follow a couple of rules - the first is full disclosure on items. The second is ship real fast, same or next day that you get payment. That alone seems to get rid of about 90% of potential problems. I answer all queries. And on the few times where I missed an issue on an item, I just refund all the money, including shipping and take it as a lesson for myself to better inspect things.

Speaking of that, the items that have caused most problems over the years are used freewheels. I've had a couple of those where people have gotten back and said, hey, chain is skipping or some other thing on freewheels in very nice condition. I've refunded the money despite the fact that I suspect that something else is the problem, like worn chain or bad derailleur adjustment. But it isn't worth delving into and unlike a new freewheel, you can't say, well, it is new...

So I don't like selling those on ebay anymore. If I ever do again, I may very strongly warn that used freewheels are sold as-is.

I've also never had a situation where I felt a buyer was trying to scam me, knock on wood.