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Legnano Gran Premio Vintage???

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Legnano Gran Premio Vintage???

Old 09-05-11, 06:23 PM
  #1  
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Legnano Gran Premio Vintage???

Well, I finally got a Legnano that is going to be a decent fit. Yahoo! But I got the frame only. Actually, a TA tapered bottom bracket came with the bike, an Italian looking headset and a Legnano steering stem.

The only number on the frame set is located on the right side of the seat tube lug and that number is 18. What is the significance?

I could use a little help in determining the vintage of the bicycle. Campy drops, 26.4 seat post, chrome lugs, stays and fork blade ends.





Attached Images
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Legnano_GP_II_Fork_Crown_1.jpg (93.8 KB, 79 views)
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Legnano_GP_II_Tube_HT_3.jpg (98.8 KB, 91 views)
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Legnano_GP_II_Decal_ST_1.jpg (98.5 KB, 87 views)
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Legnano_GP_II_Full_Side_1.jpg (101.7 KB, 167 views)
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Legnano_GP_II_Lug_ST_1.jpg (101.1 KB, 104 views)
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Old 09-05-11, 06:48 PM
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I like the look of those bars. What are they?
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Old 09-05-11, 11:09 PM
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I'd think 60s with the headbadge.
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Old 09-06-11, 05:25 AM
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I like the look of those bars. What are they?
I am not sure. I get these old alloy bars on lower end Italian bikes from the late sixties or early seventies.

I first thought sixties also, however, there is no place to mount center pull brakes and a sixties Gran Premio would have Model 61 center pulls, would it not?
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Old 09-06-11, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
I am not sure. I get these old alloy bars on lower end Italian bikes from the late sixties or early seventies.

I first thought sixties also, however, there is no place to mount center pull brakes and a sixties Gran Premio would have Model 61 center pulls, would it not?
I've had similar Legnanos with centerpulls or sidepulls: not sure there was a definitive pattern. Does it have the centerpull hanger mount between the seatstays behind the seatlug?

Bars are maybe Ambrosio?
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Old 09-06-11, 01:12 PM
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Congratulations, glad you finally found a Legnano that fits. I know that a few have passed through your hands. I'm also pleased to see a C&Ver that is still interested in the early(1960ish)road bikes. Lately I've been feeling a little irrelevant in C&V as most postings tend towards newer stuff.
As for the age of your Legnano I'm going to say 1968. Since you acquired it as a frame only there are no components to use to assist in the year made. However my Legnano Gran Premio has the numbers 36 stamped into the seat lug and the Campy hubs are date coded CAM 66. Thus I have used 1966 as the year made. Additionally my 1969/70 Legnano Roma has no headbadge, only a decal. Your Legnano still has a headbadge. Finally the Legnano serial number registry at CR shows a few bikes with the two digit serial number.
Keep us posted as to your progress. Oh, I finally found a Legnano large enough, at 62cm, that I can ride. Just need to reassemble it.
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Old 09-06-11, 02:46 PM
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Nice Gran Premio Randy! Well done. I had one and loved it, but regrettably sold it to survive when I was on strike. Yours is definitely pre-1970, that's when they changed from the "hot dog" down tube decal to the squared off one. I believe yours would originally have come with Uni '61's. Does it have a weird little braze on behind the seatcluster for the impossible to find Legnano-specific hanger?

Retyred - I pretty much only collect bikes from the 60's so I guess we're both irrelevant, but I think the reason you're seeing so many newer bikes on the fourm these days is that 60's bikes are becoming very scarce. Whatever road bikes were still around are mostly in the hands of collectors, who won't part with them for "C & V" prices. I have also personally experienced the fact that unless you get a complete bike, outfitting a high-end frame from the 60's is out of my league financially.

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Old 09-06-11, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by retyred View Post
Additionally my 1969/70 Legnano Roma has no headbadge, only a decal.
Does it have the "hotdog" stencil/decals or the newer ones?
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Old 09-06-11, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
Does it have the "hotdog" stencil/decals or the newer ones?
Refer to picture for answer. 100_0923.jpg
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Old 09-06-11, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by retyred View Post
Refer to picture for answer.
Hmmm, I thought the headbadge went when the decals changed, but I guess not!
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Old 09-06-11, 06:20 PM
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Does it have the centerpull hanger mount between the seatstays behind the seatlug?


Nope and I looked for one. My too small Legnano GP does have that fitting. Hmmm? Wonder what the serial number is on that puppy? Be right back...

49, stamped on the right side of the seat tube lug. Number 49 is fitted with the single hole in the seat tube lug for the center pull brake. I always thought my first Grand Pemio to be mid to late sixties.

As for the age of your Legnano I'm going to say 1968.
So, based on my number 18, the eight would suggest 1968? Any idea what the one would stand for?

This is sort of good news. I have three sets of brakes, universal side pulls, Universal Extra Brev 453949 and Universal 68. I would prefer to use the 68s and, if the frame is of 68 vintage, the 68s would be perfect. However...

I visited this Legnano Serial Number Database and learned that Legnanos, from the sixties, had the serial number stamped into the back of the seat tube collar area. Mine is stamped on the side of the lug and that would suggest fifties or sixties vintage.

From what I have learned on-line, the headbadge has been present for quite some time, the oldest of which I have viewed is from the forties. I can't tell much from the art since it seems to be very similar on all bikes I have seen.

So, the quest continues and this is fun, isn't it!
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Old 09-07-11, 04:18 PM
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Well, the brake issue is solved. I tried three sets of Universal side pull calipers and only one set would fit. I tried 700 tubulars and no fit. I tried 27 inchers and no fit. Well, in either case, one caliper would fit while the other wouldn't.




Center pulls will not work on this old bicycle. There is no place to mount them and the necessary cable guide brackets. What to do?

Well, 1968 or not, the Legnano will be fitted with Universal 68 stoppers since they both fit my 27" wheel set up perfectly. And that is good, since I wanted to use 27 inchers. Both the 700 tubulars and the 27" hoops were available as standard issue.



And the wheels are prefect! Campy high flange hubs, laced to yellow label Fiamme alloy rims. Perfect!



What to do about a crank set? I should seek out an appropriate cottered set but I am in the presence of a 1971 Campagnolo steel tapered crank set. I will likely use that set, although if someone had the proper Legnano set, I might consider an even swap.



With the components all fitted, I should be able to go for a ride in the next day, or so. If all is well, the next decision will be to paint or not to paint. This one looks like a pretty good candidate for paint matching, touch up and some restriping.



Any comments on the paint choices?
Attached Images
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Legnano_GP_II_Full_Side_4.jpg (103.8 KB, 57 views)
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Legnano_GP_II_Brake_Set_3.jpg (99.2 KB, 36 views)
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Legnano_GP_II_Decal_Rim_1.jpg (99.1 KB, 39 views)
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Legnano_GP_II_Hub_F_1.jpg (97.8 KB, 38 views)
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Legnano_GP_II_Crank_2.jpg (102.9 KB, 49 views)
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Legnano_GP_II_Brake_Set_4.jpg (98.3 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg
Legnano_GP_II_Brake_R_1.jpg (93.3 KB, 42 views)
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Old 09-07-11, 04:24 PM
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Randy, that's the same wheelset that came on my Atala Grand Prix, which has now been rebuilt, repacked, and polished up for service on my J.R.J. Maybe it was common issue for mid range Italian bikes of the time?
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Old 09-07-11, 04:39 PM
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Randy, that's the same wheelset that came on my Atala Grand Prix, which has now been rebuilt, repacked, and polished up for service on my J.R.J. Maybe it was common issue for mid range Italian bikes of the time?
I have seen these wheels on Bottecchia, Torpado, Maserati, and of course, Legnano. My guess is that they are relatively common but I likes em any ways. I have a near mint identical set fitted to my Motobécane Gran Jubileé. I wish I could afford a decent set of 27" tires but bucks are hard to find these days.
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Old 09-07-11, 04:41 PM
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I agree, it is a nice wheelset. Frankly, if it's all I got out of the Atala (plus some education!) it was probably worth it.
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Old 09-07-11, 04:42 PM
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But back to your bike, I like the lime green paint. I would just touch it up.

Also, you probably already know this but you can get replacement labels for those rims: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiamme-rim-d...f#ht_574wt_859
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Old 09-07-11, 04:56 PM
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Also, you probably already know this but you can get replacement labels for those rims: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiamme-rim-d...f#ht_574wt_859
I have bought decals from Cyclomondo on several occasions and find the product to be excellent. I can't say that for some of the other decal suppliers I have been unlucky enough to run across. Just check out the crappy decals on my other Legnano. The proportions are wrong and the printing is very sloppy, with spaces missing and jagged lines. Pure junk and these decals are being offered on Ebay frequently...


And the head tube decal I got from a reputable supplier didn't even stick...


Well, I won't have that worry with my new/old GP...

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Old 09-07-11, 07:08 PM
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The round hole hubs pictured are Nuovo Tipos. The "Campagnolo Timeline' (https://velo-retro.com/tline.html) has them being introduced 1967.
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Old 09-07-11, 07:33 PM
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Never seen anything quite like it. I learn a lot on this board.
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Old 09-07-11, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
And the head tube decal I got from a reputable supplier didn't even stick...


Well, I won't have that worry with my new/old GP...

And the fonts are wrong !!!
As a former Computer Graphics Designer, that really bugs me.
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Old 09-07-11, 08:35 PM
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The bike's looking great Randy. I'm not sure I'd attempt to touch that up, it might just end up looking worse. Right now it looks like a survivor, but at least it's come by it's patina honestly - I like the way it looks. Also, the Legnano Verde Transparencia is very difficult to touch up. If you do decide to go that route (I don't think I would) remember you need a silver base coat for the transparency. There is an out of stock but still sometimes available testors paint called "Lime Gold" that is a fairly close match. Honestly if it were mine I'd just wax it and call it done.
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Old 09-07-11, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
The round hole hubs pictured are Nuovo Tipos. The "Campagnolo Timeline' (https://velo-retro.com/tline.html) has them being introduced 1967.
Yes, "New Type". Kind of a funny name.
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Old 09-11-11, 05:26 PM
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Well it looks like I found the right thread!

I have four Legnano's at various states of restoration. This is the most recent, a blue Gran Premio . . . yes Legnano did make one or two other colors. This bike was just acquired from the west coast, the orginal bike shop sticker is still on it from the Hidden Valley Bicycle Store in Escondido, California which opened in 1961 and is still a going concern today from the look of their web site. And based on the serial number for this Gran Premio . . . it must have been one of it's early sales.



What really stumped me for a bit were the wheels on this Leganano. Well actually the hubs. As you can see in the pic here.



They are three piece hubs, steel centers and alloy flanges that look a lot like the early Campy ones. But the skewers are Simplex . . . and with a bit of looking around . . . so are these hubs . . . laced on very early Fiamme yellow clincher rims. That's right . . . French hubs and Italian rims on an ITALIAN bike. Well with a little more digging around, this is apparently how the bike was shipped and apparently there were one or two other Italian bikes at the time fitted this way.



And here is my favorite Legnano that is about to undergo an extensive restoration by Noah Rosen and Mike Barry at Velocolor here in Toronto. A 1956-1958 Legnano Sportiva that I imported directly from Italy and is 100 percent complete and original. Still has the original Pirelli Stella tires with white sidewalls and light brown tread!

Mark

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Old 09-12-11, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by windsorpro View Post
They are three piece hubs, steel centers and alloy flanges that look a lot like the early Campy ones. But the skewers are Simplex . . .
I have a set of those hubs too I built up for a bike, no idea the brand or origin.
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Old 09-12-11, 09:04 AM
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I could use those long reach Extras for a Girardengo if you're getting rid of...

Colors? I've seen them in the traditional green, blue, white, red and black.
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