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Specialties T.A. Cyclotouriste (a.k.a. Pro 5 Vis) History/Info

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Specialties T.A. Cyclotouriste (a.k.a. Pro 5 Vis) History/Info

Old 12-30-11, 05:02 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by mtbjeff View Post
Colonel thank you, I do plan to run the tandem as a double and the TA chart for a Tandem might be for a triple at 127 mm ( I noticed that the chart says a double with Shimano is 115 mm and 118.5 mm with # 344 T.A. spindle.

Also the rear Drum brake Hub spacing on this Gitane Tandem is 124 mm with a 5 speed freewheel, does the wider rear hub effect the width of the BB spindle?
Yes, I'm sure the "tandem" designation refers to using 3 chainrings. I would go with 115 or slightly wider (maybe 118) and use a spacer on the drive side because those TA spindles aren't symmetric, but most cartridge BBs are. If you err on the longer side you're just going to increase the Q factor. It's a derailleur bike so the chain line doesn't have to be perfect. It is important that both spindles be the same, so if you use a spacer on the stoker's crank you should do so on the captain's as well.
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Old 12-30-11, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by top506 View Post
23mm TA puller. Var made one as well.
The early Park CCP-1 was 23mm on one side and 22 on the other.
FWIW, I've been searching for a 38-40t chainring for a three-pin TA crank for many years.


Top
What BCD were those? Same as Stronglight 3 pin?
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Old 12-31-11, 05:08 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by top506 View Post
2FWIW, I've been searching for a 38-40t chainring for a three-pin TA crank for many years.
Originally Posted by realestvin7 View Post
What BCD were those? Same as Stronglight 3 pin?
According to Sutherland's, both use 116mm BCD and should be interchangeable:

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Old 12-31-11, 10:53 PM
  #54  
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TA Pro 5 vis crank arm length

Originally Posted by -holiday76 View Post


I've been trying to sort out more or less what was the original production dates of this crank. I understand it might be being made again but I havent confirmed.

In the meantime, I'm compiling a bunch of TA Cyclotourist info in one thread as I haven't seen some of it here, let alone in one place. I can find a lot of reading on them. Here's some of what I've learned (feel free to let me know if you think any of it is incorrect)

- work well with 115-118mm ISO (but JIS seems to work too) square taper bottom brackets. 120 or 123.5 to run it as a triple. The taper is apparently proprietary so it might be best to use a TA spindle if possible.
- 50.4 bcd
- can be finicky with front derailleurs as you need a flat cage due to the clearance between the outer part of the outer ring and the crank arm. click here to see
- they have a very narrow Q-Factor, perhaps the narrowest for a double.
- to remove the rings you must remove the arm, can be a pain
- the chain rings are very hard/durable and are available in increments of 1 between 26 (possible 25 at one point)-64. The large ones however have too much flex for racers, which is part of the reason why they were not used in that capacity. Outer chain wheels can have anywhere from 40-64 teeth, middle and inner 26-50.
- can be run as a double or a triple.
- available in lengths of 165, 170, 172.5, 180.
- they are aluminum allow, very light, english pedal threads.
-According to Sutherland's 3rd Edition, the TA extractor threads are 23mm X 1mm, and you need either a TA or Var 408 puller or a Park CPP-1.

some similar cranks are Sugino PX (no longer made), VO Grand Cru, Stronglight 49d, Williams AB.77 and I'm sure more.

Phew, that was a lot. Anyhow, who the heck can tell me when they began and ended production?
I have left and right TA Pro 5 vis crank arms at 167.5. Yes they measure that and they are stamped 167.5.
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Old 01-01-12, 11:13 AM
  #55  
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Within the past month or so on eBay, I saw saw an orphan drive-side Shimano AX Dyna-Drive with the 50.4 bcd system. Couldn't believe my eyes! Seller alleged it was part of the first-wave Shimano Deer's Head group. In case you are wondering, Dyna-Drive aka AX was the system with the 1" pedal spindle that located the rider's foot at the axis of the pedal.

I guess here it is:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/10.html

Deore group, as it seems.

Last edited by Drakonchik; 01-01-12 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 01-05-12, 08:24 PM
  #56  
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TA cranks / Viscount / Lambert
Thought I would see this. A triple TA was the perfect swap for the original double crank on my '72 Lambert Pro. The chain rings were all interchangeable but the TA had a much nicer finish. Still running the TA with all the Lambert parts stashed away. I also remember buying a spare inner chain ring because I was sure it was so light it would eventually break - it hasn't so far.
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Old 01-06-12, 08:44 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
I think the Stronglight 49d was introduced in 1933
I never researched that, cool. Someone once told me that the 49D stood for 1949 Double chainring, an evolution of the 33S (1933 Single chainring) (Is 33 the right #?) and I never questioned it, particularly as I cannot right now recall a 1933 front derailleur.

Anyway, no idea why I like the Stronglight so much more than the better-looking TA's. For 5-pin cranks I've always only used a single chainring anyway, as not having a spider means side to side flex of the ring, scraping the front derailleur, in my experience (YMMV).
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Old 01-06-12, 09:01 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
I never researched that, cool. Someone once told me that the 49D stood for 1949 Double chainring, an evolution of the 33S (1933 Single chainring) (Is 33 the right #?) and I never questioned it, particularly as I cannot right now recall a 1933 front derailleur.
The "D" in 49d stands for duralumin (aluminum).
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Old 01-07-12, 05:22 PM
  #59  
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TA cranks / Lambert
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Old 01-07-12, 06:27 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by mtree View Post
TA cranks / Lambert
Nice. You should pass some of thaton to me.
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Old 01-09-12, 10:30 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
The "D" in 49d stands for duralumin (aluminum).
Correct. And there was also a 49A (acier). Acier = steel.
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Old 01-16-12, 11:08 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by realestvin7 View Post
Nice. You should pass some of that on to me.
Just found a pair of Lambert brake levers and handlebar unit. Wish I had the hubs and bottom unit but I replaced them with Phils years ago; might have a 'groupo' then.

Wish I knew how to upsize photo but here is the Lambert with TA rings.

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Old 01-16-12, 01:28 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Drakonchik View Post
Within the past month or so on eBay, I saw saw an orphan drive-side Shimano AX Dyna-Drive with the 50.4 bcd system...Deore group, as it seems.
I have a set of those on my wife's old tourer I made for her back in the early eighties. 50x45x30.
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Old 06-25-14, 03:07 AM
  #64  
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Thread dig!

Just doing a little bit of research on these and their clones. I'm considering ~maybe~ lashing out on a set of Sugino PXs presently set up with a triple for a late 60s/70s period Randonneur build of mine.

Can anyone say with any certainty if the crank bolt sets are interchangeable between the Specialites and the PXs? Considering if I do go this route, I may convert it to a double with new 'rings from Boulder Cycle and see I would require different bolts.
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Old 06-25-14, 09:56 AM
  #65  
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Dig this thread too! With a triple set-up on our Santana wall climber
English pedal thread makes it convenient for swap's.

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Old 06-25-14, 10:36 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by HappyHumber View Post
Can anyone say with any certainty if the crank bolt sets are interchangeable between the Specialites and the PXs?
I have a PX ring mounted on a TA here using the TA bolts and it worked fine.

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Old 06-25-14, 09:05 PM
  #67  
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i also have both PX and TA cranks and change the chain rings around universally.
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Old 06-26-14, 06:15 AM
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Thanks guys.
Knowing the that rings were interchangeable, I guess it would follow that the bolts & spacers would be fine. I guess I was fairly confident, but didn't want to leave anything to chance. Shipping from the US really hits the overall purchase cost to us Down Under.

Nice to hear it from people who've run the combo.
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Old 08-01-15, 08:20 PM
  #69  
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Does anyone know when TA stopped making cranks with the closed pedal hole? I have a complete original Singer from 75 with the closed pedal holes.

1975 Alex Singer

I also have a Gitane tandem with the TA cranks with closed pedal holes. I have not taken the time to date the Gitane yet. The tandem also has four chainrings, I assume that this is a custom mod. but I have not taken it apart yet to inspect.

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 08-01-15, 08:52 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Fat Tire Trader View Post
Does anyone know when TA stopped making cranks with the closed pedal hole?
Schwinn used TA Pro 5 vis cranksets w/Cyclotouriste chainrings on the S/S Tourer, Sports Tourer and Paramount Tandem from '68 through '76. I know that in the case of Schwinn models using these cranks that the pedal eye plugs were eliminated from the crank arms some time in early to mid-'71. Since Schwinn was a large customer and these were in short supply at the time I believe this paralleled TA production. Perhaps Singer had an inventory of '71 and earlier crank arms that lasted them for awhile?

Last edited by Metacortex; 08-02-15 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 08-01-15, 11:26 PM
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Some Lambert/TA copy marginalia for anyone interested:

I found a Lambert TA-copy crank on eBay for reasonable and decided to use it on my 1x8 IGH Lambert project, got the right size chainring either from someone here or Boulder Bikes, mounted the ring on the bottom side of the crank to improve the chainline and clearance for my chainguard and rode it around awhile. Long story short, the 5 bolt holes on the 50.4 BCD crank arm are slightly off-center in relation to the crank spindle and the chain tensions and de-tensions with each revolution as you ride, since the chainring is subtly moving forward and back depending on where you are in the spin cycle!

Not something you'd expect from early 70s industrial England, eh? At any rate, it's not something you'd notice if you were running it on a derailleur bike. I rotated the ring to all five possible positions, this is the most centered I could get. Pic shows a little out-of roundness here, but it looks worse in person.



Also, the crank puller threads are 22x1, so the standard (not TA) tool is what works there.
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Old 08-02-15, 06:29 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
the [Viscount] crank puller threads are 22x1, so the standard (not TA) tool is what works there.
You're lucky. The early Lambert arms used 7/8" x 24tpi thread. Try finding a tool for that!
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Old 08-02-15, 04:33 PM
  #73  
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Anyone ever use a TA with a current Campy or Shimano 10 speed? I have a really nice TA crank I pulled off an 1982 Stumpjumper. It's looking for a new home.
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Old 10-10-15, 07:46 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by -holiday76 View Post
thanks for the clarifications/edits Southpaw! That helps. What i'm really looking for is the production dates though, or maybe just an idea of when they began being producted!

btw, i forget that I used to own yet another copy or similair crank. A Milremo.



it's cottered, steel arms, and actually had TA rings. RHM has it now. I have the rings.
I know I've seen the dates discussed on Classic Rendezvous.
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Old 10-10-15, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lascauxcaveman View Post
Some Lambert/TA copy marginalia for anyone interested:

I found a Lambert TA-copy crank on eBay for reasonable and decided to use it on my 1x8 IGH Lambert project, got the right size chainring either from someone here or Boulder Bikes, mounted the ring on the bottom side of the crank to improve the chainline and clearance for my chainguard and rode it around awhile. Long story short, the 5 bolt holes on the 50.4 BCD crank arm are slightly off-center in relation to the crank spindle and the chain tensions and de-tensions with each revolution as you ride, since the chainring is subtly moving forward and back depending on where you are in the spin cycle!

Not something you'd expect from early 70s industrial England, eh? At any rate, it's not something you'd notice if you were running it on a derailleur bike. I rotated the ring to all five possible positions, this is the most centered I could get. Pic shows a little out-of roundness here, but it looks worse in person.



Also, the crank puller threads are 22x1, so the standard (not TA) tool is what works there.
You have the chainring on the wrong side. The crank has a register machined on the arm side of the mounting face.
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