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Post your Centurion Ironman.. For the love of 80s paint jobs!

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Post your Centurion Ironman.. For the love of 80s paint jobs!

Old 03-06-20, 11:19 AM
  #8176  
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Originally Posted by TriBiker19
Yes, a HIM. It's 70.3 CT. The 56 mile bike has an elevation gain of ~3800'. The area that I live in is similar. My normal 6-mile loop is 410' elevation gain. While it's boring as all get out, I can do that loop a couple of times in a row. I guess if I was to sign up for anything, having a race similar to what I train on is the easiest to deal with. But I really should have read the course description before I signed up. Oops.


My run is currently hampered by an injury I'm seeing PT for, but I'm cleared for swim and bike. My swim is about at the 1:10 cutoff right now, but I'm ramping up training, so I expect to improve on that time.


The course is under the "bike" tab on this page--the crossovers scare me more than the ride itself... https://www.ironman.com/im703-connecticut-course

I was talking about your HR on the swim. If you don't have a HR watch or strap you can check it manually with a regular watch during your practice swim sessions. Same for the bike. You might be going above the range during the swim that you are doing on the bike. If so, you can up the pace on the bike.


Back to the course. Since the course is similar to your loop, once it gets warm enough to ride outside, you need to time yourself on one of your loops to see if you are indeed hitting your target pace/mph for the whole ride. Your bike computer/phone may say you're going so and so mph, but throw some climbing in there and your overall mph goes down unless you are a mountain goat. Same for the run. Unless you are a CamelBak runner, you will be losing 10-15 seconds every time you take on water at a SAG/water stop. That time adds up. To stay on say a 9:00 pace, you have to run around 8:45 between the water stops. At the MCM last fall, I stopped with a bunch of others(both sexes) to whip it out and relieve myself in some woods next to the course. I upped my pace between 30 seconds and one minute per to get back with the pacer. It still took me 3 or 4 miles to catch my pace group. That's another reason to ramp up the HR training. You never know when you are going to have to reach into your suitcase/bag of courage and get some.
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Old 03-06-20, 11:57 AM
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Speaking of training for a specific event, I personally believe you have to find out what pace you can't do it in and work back from there, particularly when it comes to hydration/pace/fueling. You better have these down during the race. The quickest way to learn is long before raceday. You have to bonk a few times during training to figure it out. Some people don't believe in this because it might introduce some negative thoughts. Robbie and I have talked about this. The only way to learn how to face adversity is to experience it. Then you know how it feels and how to overcome it. Right now it's early March. That 1/2 IM is late May. You better have the pace/hydration/fueling and gear as well figured out by the end of April. By then, you will be going into taper. If you haven't got it down, it will make for a long race day.

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Old 03-06-20, 02:33 PM
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Triathletes are quite numbers-driven. I understand that. Not that I agree. On one end is how you feel. On the other is what some machine says.

I have 3 HR monitors. I've run in labs with electrode things taped on. I've done VO2, lactate threshold and other tests. 200 bpm is as imaginary for me as 165 and 235.

Al Salazar says its about running out of your head and in your head at the same time. That's my nutshell.

Work hard. Push yourself. Realize the difference between discomfort, pain and injury. Have fun and try not to leave a nagging doubt about doing your best.

Then hang with who you love and do what they want to do .

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Old 03-06-20, 03:07 PM
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Then hang with who you love and do what they want to do .
What if you can't be with the one you love? What do you do then?
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Old 03-06-20, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by seypat
What if you can't be with the one you love? What do you do then?
Bahaha
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Old 03-07-20, 08:23 PM
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I haven't ridden in two weeks. Instead I've been working on getting fight fit. However I'm getting spring fever and I'm itching to ride. Currently the only chance I have to ride is the weekends. So thinking 26 miles Sat and Sun or 50 on Sundays. Actually on Tues and Thurs my 5 yo daughter is in preschool for 5 hours and I Could ride then but that time is allocated for working out at a gym where the coach trains striking for MMA fighters. Oh, and my biking buddy and his wife just had a baby boy so he's out for a while. For sure in June I'll get back to riding/training daily.
Heres a pic of my 5 yo riding outside for the first time on her New bike. I told her slow down but she said she likes to go 'Speedy Fast" and then she skids...I thought only boys did that.

And she can already ride out of the saddle.

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Old 03-07-20, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by texaspandj
I haven't ridden in two weeks. Instead I've been working on getting fight fit. However I'm getting spring fever and I'm itching to ride. Currently the only chance I have to ride is the weekends. So thinking 26 miles Sat and Sun or 50 on Sundays. Actually on Tues and Thurs my 5 yo daughter is in preschool for 5 hours and I Could ride then but that time is allocated for working out at a gym where the coach trains striking for MMA fighters. Oh, and my biking buddy and his wife just had a baby boy so he's out for a while. For sure in June I'll get back to riding/training daily.
Heres a pic of my 5 yo riding outside for the first time on her New bike. I told her slow down but she said she likes to go 'Speedy Fast" and then she skids...I thought only boys did that.

And she can ride out of the saddle already.
Niiice!
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Old 03-07-20, 08:52 PM
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^^^^^ Is that a flat spot I see forming on her back tire?

The above was the scene all along the Southwest MUP today. Must've been a half-dozen families. Training wheels, balance bikes, and "two-wheelers", kids with looks of utter determination on their faces, parents hovering close by. Slice of Americana.
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Old 03-07-20, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by texaspandj
I told her slow down but she said she likes to go 'Speedy Fast" and then she skids...I thought only boys did that.
Nice bike color!

I might have taught my son how to skid last summer because he noticed I was doing it while we were out...the fun little swerve skid where you put one foot out and whip the bike around. Works great if there’s a little sand on the road.
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Old 03-07-20, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by texaspandj
Spill the wine.
I tried to get my boys to play that song a couple of months ago but who'd sing it?
You. Heck, Eric Burden didn't really sing that song. It was more sprechgesang, talk-singing. Fred Schneider made a whole career out of that with the B-52s.

Do it, man. The world needs this.
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Old 03-07-20, 10:14 PM
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^^^^^^ Tom Morello, Lou Reed, lots of folks have some actually cool examples of sprechgesang. Until now, I didn't know there was a word for it.
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Old 03-07-20, 11:02 PM
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I'd had actually learned the bass part to Spill the Wine and had in mind what the guitar and drums were gonna do. At the same time I had learned the bass line to pick up the pieces by the average white band and we didn't do that one either. Another song I'd like to do is boogie on reggae woman by Stevie wonder. My boys can handle it, I'm not as confident.
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Old 03-08-20, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TriBiker19
I'm going to be the clueless person. I was looking at the triple Ironman thread and I'm going to admit, I was lost. Is there a link that explains gearing vs. power and what's beneficial for riding? I've googled and found many sites that don't help. I can drive a stick, I understand shifting my bike, but I'd like to comprehend gearing ratios in relation to cranks and cassettes. I get the basics, but you're classifying based on how many teeth are in each revolution. I'd like more info on what's good and bad based on the numbers.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong. Help me out. I want to understand.
Optimal gearing and cadence are very individual. Only way to find out what works best for you is to get some data.

Get an affordable heart rate monitor (Wahoo Tickr chest strap works fine, and is compatible with ANT+ and Bluetooth).

And a cadence sensor. The easiest are by XOSS and a few others. They're convertible between cadence and speed (just by resetting the device via removing and replacing the coin cell battery). Strap the cadence sensor around the crank arm. No magnets needed. The induction type sensors don't need 'em.

You don't absolutely need a speed sensor. Activity apps and computers do a good job of estimating speed via GPS. I use both wheel/hub mounted speed sensors and GPS and the speed results are usually the same. Any differences are usually negligible -- fractions of a second, or nths of a mph.

I also use an old 2012 era Wahoo sensor kit that's ANT+ only, so it needs either a phone with built in ANT+ capability, a dongle or doodad that plugs into the phone's USB or other socket, or a computer that's compatible with Bluetooth and ANT+. Only reason I bought the old Wahoo sensors is the 2012 kit cost $150 when new, but because it's now obsolete I bought 'em for $10. I don't need the bulky ANT+ adapter (I already had one for my old iPhone 4s), but the 2-in-1 sensors are handy and maybe a bit more accurate than my XOSS Bluetooth induction sensor.

With a heart rate monitor, cadence sensor, and speed sensor (again, GPS via your phone will do), you can compare a few test runs over a familiar route. Try high cadence (90+ rpm), medium (around 70-80 rpm) and low cadence (around 60 rpm), while maintaining the same speed over your trial route. Shift gears to accommodate the desired cadence and speed.

Then check your heart rate over each trial run. And keep notes about how you felt during each run. Over time and repeated rides you'll figure out which works best for you.

For years I was a spinner, around 90 rpm like clockwork. Just felt right. And it was easier on my knees. And it's what the pros have been doing since Lance Armstrong.

But that didn't make it right for me.

When I tried to maintain 90-100 rpm on climbs I'd gas out and get dropped on fast group rides. After getting a heart rate monitor I realized my heart rate was pegging near my maximum (170+ bpm). At my age and physical/heath condition, that's a pretty hard limit. Due to respiratory damage (lots of childhood illnesses, pneumonia, etc.) my lung capacity is limited. I suspect my VO2 max is much lower than average for my age group. It won't improve, at least not without EPO and blood doping.

So last year I changed tactics. I switched to slower cadence, harder gears, and mashed up climbs. It worked better for me. I was going the same speed without my heart rate maxing out. It took a few months to persuade my body this was right for me -- very careful pedaling technique, more leg strengthening exercises at home -- lunges, squats, etc. Now I average 75 rpm, am a little faster, and don't get gassed out as long as I keep my heart rate below 160 bpm, other than for hard efforts up to 30 seconds. I set an alarm on my bike computer to alert me when my HR exceeds 160 bpm.

After reviewing the 20something year old techie articles about Armstrong switching to higher cadence, under the guidance of the now-infamous Dr. Michele Ferrari, I realized the high cadence trend has been misinterpreted. The idea was to apply it to long, grueling 3-week multi-stage races. The respiratory system recovers quicker than the legs. So higher cadence makes sense in that context, because higher cadence stresses the respiratory system more than the legs.

But most of us aren't racing flat-out up to 200 miles a day for 3 weeks at a time. And as it turns out, the elite 1990s-2000s cyclists weren't
doing it without chemical assistance. EPO and blood doping enhanced their oxygenated blood flow, making the higher respiratory demands of faster cadence workable. But without doping, only a few naturally gifted athletes can crank big gears fast for hours on end, day after day.

I'm riding only 3-5 days a week, 20-50 miles per ride, and limit my fast rides to one a week. Recovery isn't quite as critical for me. So it turns out a slower cadence and bigger gears worked better for me. Totally contrary to the conventional wisdom of the past 20 years, but without data from heart rate, cadence and speed monitors, I wouldn't have made the connection.

Some folks will still do better with fast cadence. One of my local cycling friends is a little younger, in his 50s, but he's still a beast, faster than some younger pros. He's a natural time trialist and generally averages 20+ mph solo over 25-100 mile rides across our roller coaster terrain. Occasionally the local serious amateur and pro team training rides will be that fast, and they're riding pacelines and drafting -- and they still rarely beat his best times and KOMs. His cadence is fast, at least 90 rpm. It works for him and looks effortless. If he switched to a time trial/tri-bike, he'd probably dominate the state master's division in time trials, but he doesn't seem very concerned about competition. He just enjoys riding.

Another mutual friend, also an older guy and very strong rider, has a very slow cadence, around 50-60 rpm. Works for him.
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Old 03-08-20, 11:28 AM
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I'm don't put too much stock in cadence for my style of riding. As a Triathlete you're essentially a time trialist and running bigger gears at a slower cadence is just normal.
As a personal thing, I just found a comparatively lower cadence suits me. Had I been introduced into this Bike Riding as a cyclist, perhaps I would have found spinning more to my liking. To be clear my relatively low cadence is not layman slow. I'm not really sure what my cadence is, perhaps I'll count today when I finally ride but, probably 70 -80 rpms.
Like C-Cat, I believe the spinning is more Tour/Recovery related. However, I'm sure there's a correlation between power vs cadence vs gearing and may be worth exploring for those motivated by that type of thing. What ever gets you out there enjoying the ride or improving your performance...or enjoy the ride by improving your performance.
Now which Ironman will I choose today?
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Old 03-10-20, 07:11 PM
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It’s too BIG

So I figured out a while ago that my ‘89 Blue smoke is a 56cm. (I thought it was a 54cm.) I kept it in the trainer, I’ve done a ton of rides on it, completely balded the rear tire, and now...I’m wondering if I should part with it because it is truly too big for me. I thought I could limp it along and things might be more comfortable, but after taking out my 54cm Ironman and my 54cm Shogun 500 yesterday, I realize it’s just not working. (They were neglected and I felt bad.)

so here’s the question—can I make it work? The 54s feel light and agile and comfortable. The 56 is an untamable beast. Here’s a picture. Along with my first impression—swapping out the stem might make things better, if only a little. What else can I do? The seat is at my height, it rides nice even though I need to repack the bearings/lube everything.

Robbie has specs on the 54cm.


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Old 03-10-20, 07:36 PM
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As shown, fit/sizing is incorrect for what you are trying to do. No drop from saddle top to bar top is a clue. Why are the bars so high? If the saddle height is correct, then installing an 80mm stem would make the saddle-to-bar stretch more comfortable.

Hot Old Guy tip: when riding in a comfortable position, the front axle should be exactly obscured by the handlebar. Altering the saddle fore-aft position and/or the stem length will correct this if needed, as long as you don't get too crazy with saddle position and lose leverage on the crank arms. BTW, how long are those crank arms?

Three optimum fit measurements you need to figure out and know:
1) Center of BB to top of saddle as measured along the seat tube
2) Center of seat post just below the saddle to center of handlebars where it passes thru the stem
3) Center of handlebar to the ground when bike is vertical

With those three measurments you can get virtually any bike to fit you, or at least come close. Sure there are some relatively minor differences in BB drop and stuff that can throw it off but 99% of the time those three will get you there.
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Old 03-10-20, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
As shown, fit/sizing is incorrect for what you are trying to do. No drop from saddle top to bar top is a clue. Why are the bars so high? If the saddle height is correct, then installing an 80mm stem would make the saddle-to-bar stretch more comfortable.

Hot Old Guy tip: when riding in a comfortable position, the front axle should be exactly obscured by the handlebar. Altering the saddle fore-aft position and/or the stem length will correct this if needed, as long as you don't get too crazy with saddle position and lose leverage on the crank arms. BTW, how long are those crank arms?

Three optimum fit measurements you need to figure out and know:
1) Center of BB to top of saddle as measured along the seat tube
2) Center of seat post just below the saddle to center of handlebars where it passes thru the stem
3) Center of handlebar to the ground when bike is vertical

With those three measurments you can get virtually any bike to fit you, or at least come close. Sure there are some relatively minor differences in BB drop and stuff that can throw it off but 99% of the time those three will get you there.
Great info. I use the same #1 with slight variations in 2 and 3.
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Old 03-10-20, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by seypat
Great info. I use the same #1 with slight variations in 2 and 3.
Yep, yep, I use the same thing.
Obviously makes it easier to setup my bikes. Of course it helps that all my bikes are Super... similar.
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Old 03-10-20, 08:40 PM
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Actually since three of my IMs are built for Tris and have the same saddle, I measure tip of saddle to stem. And because my crankarms may be different lengths I measure center of pedal to top of saddle (following seat tube). And finally, top of stem to center of front hub (following fork).
My fourth IM is a size smaller and built as a road bike so slightly different saddle fore and aft. However, saddle height and stem height I achieved using my regular methods.
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Old 03-10-20, 09:30 PM
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Man, I have been having some bad luck this year. One strange, stupid incident after another. Yesterday, as I was exiting the Sam's Club gas station, there was a car wreck right in front of me. One rear ended another. The front car creeps down into the Walmart parking lot next to the Sam's. The other goes down to a different entrance. I turn behind the front car and keep an eye on the back one. She acts like she is going to turn into the parking lot, but makes a U turn instead, stomps on it and speeds away. Hit and run, Baby! I turn around and take off in pursuit. It's not hot pursuit. You can only pursue so fast in a 1 ton van with a couple of pallets of stuff on it. I lost her at a light about a mile from the scene. So I turn around and go back to the scene. By the time the fuzz arrived and I gave a statement, etc. it was too late to go to Fredericksburg and make my deliveries.
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Old 03-10-20, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by seypat
Man, I have been having some bad luck this year. One strange, stupid incident after another. Yesterday, as I was exiting the Sam's Club gas station, there was a car wreck right in front of me. One rear ended another. The front car creeps down into the Walmart parking lot next to the Sam's. The other goes down to a different entrance. I turn behind the front car and keep an eye on the back one. She acts like she is going to turn into the parking lot, but makes a U turn instead, stomps on it and speeds away. Hit and run, Baby! I turn around and take off in pursuit. It's not hot pursuit. You can only pursue so fast in a 1 ton van with a couple of pallets of stuff on it. I lost her at a light about a mile from the scene. So I turn around and go back to the scene. By the time the fuzz arrived and I gave a statement, etc. it was too late to go to Fredericksburg and make my deliveries.
So I go there today. After the deliveries, I spot a couple of vintage drop bar roadies in front of a pawn shop. I stop and take a look. After the look, I was walking back to the van and noticed a sheet metal screw imbedded in one of my tires. I still have to drive back to Richmond. I find a level spot and remove the screw. Even though it was in a tread knob it is long enough to go through and the tire starts leaking. I have to put on the spare. Now the glass half full person would say finding the screw was actually good luck because the tire could have blown out on the return trip and caused a bad accident. Still, it seems like something like this is happening every week. Every freaking week.
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Old 03-10-20, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr
As shown, fit/sizing is incorrect for what you are trying to do. No drop from saddle top to bar top is a clue. Why are the bars so high? If the saddle height is correct, then installing an 80mm stem would make the saddle-to-bar stretch more comfortable.

Hot Old Guy tip: when riding in a comfortable position, the front axle should be exactly obscured by the handlebar. Altering the saddle fore-aft position and/or the stem length will correct this if needed, as long as you don't get too crazy with saddle position and lose leverage on the crank arms. BTW, how long are those crank arms?

Three optimum fit measurements you need to figure out and know:
1) Center of BB to top of saddle as measured along the seat tube
2) Center of seat post just below the saddle to center of handlebars where it passes thru the stem
3) Center of handlebar to the ground when bike is vertical

With those three measurments you can get virtually any bike to fit you, or at least come close. Sure there are some relatively minor differences in BB drop and stuff that can throw it off but 99% of the time those three will get you there.
Thank you!

The bars are high because I've never bothered to adjust them. They're for another rider. My seat is adjusted to me, and the saddle replaced with one Robbie sent me. I've only ridden this bike outside for about 40 miles, the longest around 15mi. The rest were trainer. 20mi was the longest so far, per my training plan.

I just feel stretched out when on this bike. I can ride it in the drops and in aero, but it's always felt like I'm to my full extent. I would offer it to my husband (who is my inseam but a longer torso) but he seems to be afraid that he's going to break my "dainty" bike.
*sigh*
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Last edited by TriBiker19; 03-11-20 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 03-11-20, 04:08 PM
  #8198  
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Yepper, da Doc knows.
1) Center of BB to top of saddle as measured along the seat tube. 28.875 to 29.00 inches.
2) Center of seat post just...….where it passes thru the stem. 61cm.
3) Center of handlebar to the ground when bike is vertical. Depends how aggressive I feel.
Now, if you want to save that 56cm for yourself... based on the photos and my extensive experience trying to fit a 5'6" man on a 56cm bike for thousands of miles. (Oh, wait, it wasn't "trying." It was done.)

1-go shorter on the stem. 70mm or 80mm max. Period. Handling will be a bit twitchier.
2-zero-setback seat post. Period. Yes, you may be 20-25mm farther forward. So be it.
You just gained up to 2", maybe more. A bit twitchier, but so much easier to reach the DT shifters.

Other options:
1-shorter reach bars. Hard to find in C&V, and not always measured the same.
2-saddle position. Don't exceed the marks on the rails; but some saddles have longer rails and enable this.
3-raising the bars. This moves them back, too, but not much. It eases the bendover. Comfort = speed.
4-crank arm length. Newly popular (the trends cycle a lot, pun intended). Pick up a few mm in height.
5-saddle type. Yep, makes a difference. I still have that Vetta that I think you would like.

Putting it bluntly, you can't change much about where your feet go.
(crank arm length, foot position)

You can change more about where your butt goes.
(seat post set back, saddle height, rail length, mounting position-sounds like a romance novel).

Your butt location makes a difference in where your hands end up.
(gonna stop while I'm ahead).

Like Doc says, you can make a bike fit. It may not be your optimal fit, but it can fit.
Another way of seeing it, is triathletes generally think pain is good.
Good for them. Don't think that way.

Last edited by RobbieTunes; 03-11-20 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 03-11-20, 08:11 PM
  #8199  
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You make some excellent points, Robbie. The best one, which you infer, is that starting with the corrct size bike makes a difference in performance. Yes, we can play with shorter stems and saddle placement and seatpost setback, but the best performance comes from a setup that fits the rider to begin with. It took me (literally) years to learn that a 57cm seat tube, a 56cm top tube and a 100mm stem were my magic numbers. Sure, I CAN ride a 55 or a 59, but I'll never be as comfortable or as efficient as I am on what really fits me.

"Getting all of the contact points right makes the pain tolerable." You can quote me on that.
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Last edited by rccardr; 03-12-20 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 03-11-20, 08:27 PM
  #8200  
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Doc beat me to it. RT knows more about making a larger than needed bike fit than just about anyone. But ...the right size just makes things easier.
I've had a 46, 50, 52, 54, 56, and 60 cm Ironman and at a vertically challenged 5'7" I figured out 54cm works for me.
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