robn311

Hi all,
I wanted to ask this question of folks who are familiar with vintage touring bikes.

I am 5'11" to 6', with an inseam of 33-34". My comfort hybrid (a Jamis Citizen) is a 21" frame with a stand-over height of about 32-33" (it's got a funky curved bar) and fits great. Now I'm looking for a vintage sport touring bike and am wondering about sizing. Someone near me has a Fuji America that is appealing to me at the moment, seller says it is a 21" frame with a stand-over of just more than 31". Does this sound about right or too small? Just for more info, I don’t plan to do any loaded touring; it would be more for recreation, exercise, and simple day-trips anywhere from 25-100 miles.

I ask for a couple of reasons. I used a formula that I found through Google magic, and it seems the "right" size for me is 22". I hear that touring bikes are typically a little bit bigger, and racing road bikes nowadays get fitted a little bit smaller. But I also read that the older "sport touring" bikes should get fitted more like a racing bike. So I'm a little confused and just wanted some general thoughts.

And yes, I know the classic answer is "go try it out and see if it fits," and that point is well-taken (it's really the best advice!). But it is a bit of a drive for me to get to this particular seller and I at least want to be sure it isn't far too small before committing to the drive. Any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Rob

balindamood

Rule of thumb for folks 5-6 to 6-2 or so is subtract 8-inches from your pants inseam for a tradtional flat top-tube road frame. This may vary a small amount (1-2 cm) for odd wheel sizes, high/low bottom brackets, or extra long/short legs. Women usually need to add 1 cm or so. My guess is that you ought to be on a 59-61 cm (c-t) frame which is 24-inches in US measurements.

Find one or two and try them out for size.

kroozer 

If it was me I'd pass. 21" with 31" standover sounds too small for a typical vintage road frame. I'm about your size and always look for frames in the 23"/58cm range, with a standover close to 33". I'll go a little smaller but not much, maybe 22"/56cm. On a smaller frame the top tube will usually be shorter as well, which can leave you feeling scrunched up.

khatfull

With your inseam I'd think 22" would be short for a touring setup. Much also depends on your reach compared to TT length as well to get an overall "fit".

I would think you'd look for something in the 23-24" range. I'm 6' with a 30-31" inseam and all my bikes, except the full out race bike (which is a 58 CTT), are 59-61cm frames. I prefer the fit and ride of a larger frame and on all the larger frames I have less than 0" standover clearance. Standover is relatively unimportant to me unless completely crazy. On all my 59-61cm bikes I have to lean over to stand flat footed. Who hops off the saddle and plants both feet on the ground simultaneously such that you'd need clearance between the TT and "the boys"? Clowns?

Back in the day when these bikes were made we didn't see a yard of seatpost showing, slammed stems and the like. Saddles and bars were much closer to level. The aesthetic of the frames IMHO lends to that more level setup.

It's funny, my bikes hang upside down in the garage. The three larger frames, 72 Fuji Newest, 84 Fuji Touring Series V, and 80 Fuji America...all three, without trying to measure for fit or anything, have the handlebars and saddles are all in a neat row +- 1/2" or so.

The point of my rant...don't pay so much attention to standover. Try to ride a few bikes of differeing frame sizes. That's truly the only way you're going to know what works for you in a frame that has such different geometry than that hybrid you're riding now.

And if that Fuji America were a 23" I'd tell you do run, not walk, to get it. Lovely bikes.

randyjawa 

Have a look at Buying Risks: Does It Fit? Perhaps a something in that article might be of help.

auchencrow

Best advice ^

treebound 

I'm basically your height, but it sounds like your legs might be longer than mine.
21" = 53.34cm, which some measure center to top and others measure center to center, you need to know which method the seller used to get the 21" measurement.
To me the top tube length is more important, or at least equally as important as seat tube length. Seat tube gets you into the neighborhood, but top tube and stem and bars and saddle set will get you into tune.
I seem to fit best on 56cm ctc seat tube and 56cm ctc top tube, give or take a little. My gut tells me that 21" frame might be a bit small, but if your torso is relatively shorter then it might be perfect.

Sorry, but, try it on for size and see. Sometimes it is better to make a wasted drive than it is to miss a good deal, othertimes not, no way to know unless you go and find out. And check the seller's location for backup options in case the fit ends up not working out.

bennie222

I'd bet you're in the 58-60cm range. I'm 5'10, with 31" actual inseam, wear 30" length jeans, and I ride a 56cm C&V bike. If you consider yourself to have long arms, you can ride a smaller size like 56 but it'll be a 'race' setup. If you want a touring setup which is more upright, you'd better look at larger sizes, 59 or 60cm probably.

The only way that 21" bike would fit is if you have a really short torso and/or really short arms, and you'll need a riser stem to bring the bars up to where your saddle will be. You'll have probably 8" or more of seatpost showing on that 21" given your inseam measurement. Definitely pass on the 21" bike.

robn311

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I think I'm going to pass. I'm thinking a 23" frame would really be ideal (I have a 25" Fuji Regis that is too big for me, and it seems 21" is too small, so...).

I do have another question though (for you C&V experts)...I would really like to get something like a Fuji America (it is, in fact, the bike I really really want), but they're near impossible to find near me. Are there any other bikes that you would recommend that would be similar? Again, I don't really want it for loaded touring, just potentially long-ish day-trips at most. And I really like the vintage bikes (particularly Fuji, but I'm not dedicated solely to the brand) and don't want to spend a ton of money on a new bike. Any thoughts you guys have would be much appreciated.

Rob

due ruote 

23 sounds about right to me. I'm 5'8" and my go-to bike is a 22" Raleigh. Even for me, 21" is what I'd consider more of a race fit. But I'm old.

There are lots of good choices for what you'd like to do. Miyata, Univega, Lotus, Trek, to name a few. A Raleigh International if you get lucky, or any of the Carlton-built Raleighs for that matter. I wouldn't get too hung up on searching for a particular bike if what you have in mind is a purpose. Just keep your eyes open for something that suits what you want to do. Of course you can always keep an eye out for that Fuji, but I wouldn't put off riding until I'd found one.

khatfull

+1. While I'd be hard pressed to tell someone NOT to get a Fuji by all means, get something that fits and will do what you want and save that America for the grail bike. OP, I'll poll the other Fuji Fanatics on the forum and elsewhere and see if an ~23" America is on anyone's radar. Check CL, check eBay...and don't forget non-local CL, you can always try to arrange a facilitator. My America came to me from St. Louis courtesy of buldogge.

due ruote 

There are also lots of good Schwinn choices, esp. the lugged ones from the 1980s. Super Sport, Prelude, Tempo, etc.

jbkirby

+1 I am 6'1" with a 32" inseam and a 23.5 inch frame is perfect as long as I extend the seat post up a good bit so as not to be scrunched in. Extremely comfortable on long rides.

bennie222

Miyata 1000's or 610's are good. The 1000's are expensive as they are pretty popular still. The Trek 520 series is also good. There is a nice thread on here of Schwinn voyagers, they look pretty nice as well. Bridgestone T700 or the 83-85 Lotus Odyssey perhaps. There's a start for you.

robn311

Thanks again guys. Do you all have any thoughts on the Fuji Touring Series III? There is one of those for sale nearby:

https://albany.craigslist.org/bik/2622384626.html

$250 seems a little high, but (1) I may be able to get him to come down a little and (2) assuming it's in good shape, it may not be all that bad for a solid bike. Again, I don't want a fixer-upper or anything, but a nice solid riding bike.

Thanks!
Rob

robn311

By the way, I realize that bike I just listed is quite a bit bigger, but I'm dumb and realized my original measurements that I posted earlier were taken barefoot, and so the 21" is definitely too small for me. I'm more looking for opinions of the model, since I'm not too knowledgeable at them. I've heard very good things about the Touring Series IV and V though...

due ruote 

I think you could do a lot worse than 250 for that bike, especially if the tires are decent, which they appear to be. But I agree that one in particular is likely too big for you by an inch or so.

khatfull

I've had a III:



And have a V:



I loved the III but got the V because it was a size bigger, which is what I wanted in a touring setup.

I think the III is a fine bike. Little more sport tourer than full out tourer...if you're looking for that kind of ride you could do a lot worse.

If it fits...

robn311

Thanks again, guys. I emailed the seller, so I'm going to take a look at it. If it doesn't feel too big, I may end up with a "new" bike! Not sure why, but for some reason, old Fujis really get me...

One other question...is moving the downtube shifters to the bars (like on yours, khatfull) a big deal? Obviously, I'm not a bike mechanic, but am pretty good at learning how to do stuff on my other bikes, and it doesn't seem like a major issue, but figured I'd ask. Not sure why, but downtube shifters just don't work for me...

Thanks again everyone.

khatfull

They get me too

Switching to barcons isn't hard, you need a downtube stop, barcons, some housing, and new cables. Look at the many pictures of how they're routed. On the TSII I has I routed them aero, on the TSV I switched to the "traditional" off the bottom of the drops. They don't get in the way near as much as I thought they would.

If you get that TSIII and want to switch to barcons allow me to give you a downtube stop...PM me if it happens. Little contribution to get another Fuji back to riding. BTW, I just traded for a set of barcons to switch my America back...I'm finding I like barcons more and more for casual riding.

robn311

Thanks a lot, khatfull, I really appreciate it. I've scheduled a meeting with the guy tomorrow to look at it. I also did find another America kinda-sorta nearby, so I'm going to call that guy tomorrow and see what he says. Either way, I'll be sure to keep you all posted. Thanks again for all of the great help on this thread.

robn311

Ok, so the America is out. I looked at the Touring Series III today. Frame is in good shape, a few scratches, but no dents or bends. Tires look good, not sure about tubes, but the seller said he thinks they're ok. It could probably need some new cables, definitely needs new brake hoods (they appear to have melted or something, never seen them like that before...), and will need a really good cleaning (like should be at least partially taken apart, cleaned, and put back together, which I've never done). But as I said, frame is fine and shifters and brakes seem to work ok. Would this change anyone's opinion on the value of this bike? I *think* I can get him down to $200, but no lower. Thoughts?

robn311

Let me also add, the bike is sized just right. It's not too big, as I was worried about, it fits correctly.

kroozer 

If it looks like khatfull's III, I'd say it's a good deal. Before you hand over cash, be sure to check the frame and fork for front-end damage, i.e., the frame/fork getting bent back due to a head-on collision. This happens to a lot of frames, it weakens them and screws up the handling. I've done it to several of my own bikes (4!). The tell-tale signs are on the top- and down-tubes, right behind the head lugs. The top of the tubes may have cracked paint from being stretched, and the bottom sides may be a bit crumpled from being compressed. Sometimes you can't see it with a casual look, but you can feel the wave in the metal with your fingertips.