devinfan

Now that's an interesting idea I never even considered. Could it be a Viscount with a replacement fork, repainted and with the BB threaded? It's beautiful anyway.

cudak888 

That's more than a Viscount with that gorgeous seat lug.

I'm tempted to say Condor (English, not Swiss), but the examples I've seen have seat stays filleted straight into the seatlug ears. Nevertheless, Condor built a number of their frames with that narrow slot in the seatlug - plus that same sloping crown casting. Still, the BB threading tells against it.

-Kurt

Otis

Yes, lets replace the "death fork", but you know just to keep it interesting lets drill a bunch of randomly spaced holes in the steerer. That will even things out a bit

realestvin7

Didn't you thread your Viscount with a 68mm wide shell to Italian thread instead of purchasing new sealed bearings?

rhm

I think Viscount explains it. An Italian thread is the only one that will fit the BB shell. The dropouts look very much like Viscount dropouts, without eyelets. Removed? The seat cluster looks nicer than Viscount, but I don't see any actual differences. I'm thinking someone tidied the frame up with Bondo before repainting it.

unworthy1

The Viscount idea had occurred to me, too, but I also think the craftsmanship is higher. It might have been re-tapped from BSC to ITA but I don't see any traces inside the shell to tell, it looks pretty clean and the threads don't extend that deep into the center. This also might be original paint, I'll know more when I take the crownrace off, but then again: that primer on the perforated steerer looks like epoxy to me, which wouldn't have been around in the '70s (right?) so this might have been completely blasted before a repaint. The paint itself is very good quality (has a bit of metallic glitter), seems like it could be Imron or some other 2-part PU paint.
There's enough on it (the forkcrown, the cable guide nubs, the Dutch pinch bolt, the HS) that makes it very likely to be British, but I can't guess at a specific brand. Have not seen enough Condors to know, but I'll look into that...was that one that Bill Hurlow did building for? (I'm not saying this is his work).
A couple details I forgot to snap, but will add to the photobucket: it has a shifter band stop on the bottom of the down tube that's "pentagon" shaped. The down and seat tubes extend pretty deep into the BB shell, too far for any sealed BB unit, and would interfere with a plastic accordion dust shield, too. Is this standard practice for a fillet-brazed BB?
Thanks for the input!
Edit: I don't see any signs of bondo, but I'll explore that...
My questions for Viscount owners:
What do Viscount serial numbers look like?
Does Viscount braze a reinforcement into the top of the seat tube?
What is the typical seat post size?

rhm

This photo of Realestvin7's might answer that:

26.8 mm

realestvin7

Here are additional comparative pics of details you mentioned.

jr59

I'm not all sure what it is, but I do KNOW it is worth what you paid.

It looks to be a well made bicycle frame with some very nice parts hung on it!

unworthy1

Thanks for the Viscount "horror show" pics. I'm coming around to the idea that this is a Viscount frame, but with a twist:
The main frame and details bear enough "Viscount" to support that conclusion, and I think the fork is an entirely separate animal, thus the Columbus steerer and sloping crown, and weird perfing. I think the serial number probably isn't original to Viscount, and that the seat cluster has been entirely reworked, including adding the internal shim, but no bondo there, just bronze.
I read a story from Norris Lockley that might explain things: he said there was a factory fire in the Falcon works where a large stock of Viscount frames were damaged and then sold off. Some of these were repaired and emerged in the market bearing all sorts of builder's names, including some highly regarded marques.
I'm just clutching for an answer, but I like this one: it's a Viscount that had some major surgery to the seat cluster (and by a good man with a torch) had a fresh steel fork added, BB shell tapped to Italian and this "000387 BK" serial added, maybe the dropouts shaved. And then branded as...anybody's guess!
I'm going with that until something better crops up.
Meanwhile, I might build this up as a "Townie" and sell off some of those parts. Realestvn7 has dibs on some, but I'll post something if I decide to sell (or trade) stuff.
Thanks for all the help and interest.

devinfan

I like the fire story, that's very cool. The good news is the paint is much nicer than what I've seen on other Viscounts, and the details like the seatcluster) are as well. It's too bad the seller can't help point you in the right direction? It would be interesting to know. I was looking at pictures of Viscount droputs, and it's close but to me... not quite.

unworthy1

In the interest of History (and correctness):
I re-read the story Norris had posted (on the CR list) and I got it wrong. He was referring to a model that Falcon made after Viscount had closed up operations, but used the same Phoenix ("aerospace") thin-walled plain-gauge chrome-moly tubing that Viscount used. That fire resulted in a bunch of fire-damaged Falcons (which were sold off) being re-worked and re-badged and sold under many brandnames in the UK...or so goes his story. He says these Falcons were lugged (with long-point Prugnat window lugs) and used long Shimano dropouts, said that using the Phoenix tubing kept them 4oz. lighter than the same frame built with 531. And the Phoenix tubing cost less than 531

I'm still holding to the idea that my frame is a re-worked Viscount, but with no connection to Falcon.