lostarchitect 

I just built some wheels with Campy high-flange hubs--they look great. I really prefer the look of high flange. I laced them 4x.

noglider 

No, and I imagine it's tricky. My Super Course has wheels I built back in 1983 or so. Small flange and 4-cross. I'm thinking of switching from 27" to 700c, and I'll have no use for these super-long spokes any more.

I did once build a tandem rear wheel with an Atom drum brake hub (with HUGE flanges), 700c or 27" rim, and 48 spokes. That was a big project!

noglider 

I happen to like the look of large flange, too. I liked small flange when they were rare, though, so I guess I'm flighty.

I also happen to like the look of 4-cross (or the largest number of crosses you can get for a given type of wheel) though there is no technical advantage.

It seems that some are willing to pay the extra for the spiffier looks. The evidence is that some hubs are available that way, and the prices are high. Supply and demand are working as predicted.

sakeed123, I trust that what you know is true, but I think it's not applicable to bicycles. It has been shown that any difference in stiffness between one wheel and another is washed away by the softness of pneumatic tires. Everyone who knows that radial lacing is stiff is also wrong. Sometimes, commonly held "truths" are wrong. The trouble is, blind tests are very hard to conduct with bicycles. And even when someone does them, the results are not well published or accepted.

DiabloScott

There're plenty of budget high flange hubs around... my Masi fixed gear has some no-name ones that add something to that faux-retro look. The flange is about the same size as my 16t cog.


I like those VeloOrange ones though... I'll use those the next time I build up a set.

JohnDThompson 

If anything, large flanges make it easier to build 4-cross wheels since the spoke heads are further apart.

JohnDThompson 

As it happens, yes:



It IS easier to build 4-cross with large flange hubs.

jeepr

Ooooohhhh, so I guess it's a good think I decided to hang onto these wheels with Shimano 333s! Some polishing is in order..

JohnDThompson 

The C-Record hubs were only made for a few years so they're relatively scarce, particularly the large-flange version. That, and they have a reputation for flange failure:



I suspect a good portion of these failures were due to excessive tension on the spokes from adherents to the "more is better" school of spoke tensioning.

JohnDThompson 

And what about the brief infatuation with High/Low hubs? Campagnolo, Hi-E, Suzue and others used to offer them:





It seems they're back with these Rolf/White Industries hubs, but the flanges are swapped with the high flange on the non-drive side:



Is this any less a gimmick than it was back in the 70s?

khatfull

FYI...just about what mine looked like!

aixaix 

I think these could have been part of Curtis's inspiration:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/2816407...in/photostream
https://www.flickr.com/photos/2816407...in/photostream
They are F.B. hubs from the 1950s. Glamorous, no?

gearbasher

A work of art:



Unfortunately, I don't have the heart to build them up.

realestvin7

I do. Move them along.

RJM

I have a 650b set of wheels with Phil hubs, "Rivy" style, Dyad rims and dt spokes. Great riding set of wheels that I think are the bomb when it comes to looks. I guess I prefer the look of high flange hubs.

https://www.rivbike.com/product-p/hu30.htm

They probably went out of style because people started to be obsessed with less spoke count and lighter weight wheels. Loss of interest = less people producing them.

Paramount1973 

High flange hubs are bike babe magnets? Who knew?

3alarmer 

This is actually just a cultural myth that relates flange size
to penis size. It's not true, of course, but if it works until
you actually have to put up, what's the harm?

seypat

That's why I ride them.

I have to admit I have a Jones for Pelissier Pro High flange. Well, Pelissier hubs in general. They seem to be a cut above the Normandys, Atoms and Maillards. The first search when I go to Ebay is always Pelissier.

southpawboston

I think there probably is a difference. Not due to decreased spoke length, but due to increased spoke angle. The greater the angle from vertical, the stronger the triangulation will be, making the wheel laterally more rigid. The same principle applies to wheel diameter: the larger the wheel, the less laterally stiff it will be, because of decreased spoke angle. This is why small wheels are laterally stronger than large wheels, assuming the same spoke count. It's well documented that a 36H 20" wheel is as strong as a 40H 700c wheel. Now, the effect of a high flange hub may be a small, but it's probably measurable with the right equipment.

sakeed123

Thank you all for the welcome. So many to answer here and so much good info to respond to- I have to be breif right now and can elaborate more later.

The first response to me from a gentleman I would have to go back and find his name but I do understand what you are speaking of. I was talking about stress in the perpendicular direction of what you list. Trangulation of the hanging tension of the springs. THis angle increases and so does spoke tension cycling of the metal (or composite). Metal fatigue leads to failure of both the hub and the spoke as well as wheel trueness. A resent post shows this failure.The dual height flange my strong guess was simply engineered for lacing ease aganist the cassette face- above the interfere of threading spokes. The later opposite side unit is engineered my guess for consistant spoke lenth through geometry changes of trangulation between the drive side and the nondrive sides of a rear assembly.

What is missing in translation of my post? Basically with the influx of modern deev V designed rims, the spoke length has shortened. THis vertical hanging spoke tension angle increases and thus increase3s cycling tension of metal fatigue. Marrying the larger depth rims with a tighter diameter hub makes perfect sense to keep the longer spoke for a less agressive spoke angle- longer is more "resilient" in design. Gotta go for now but I simply love knowledgable debates like this- thank you for the warm welcomes all.

Dean

Italuminium

My set looks like an exact clone of this set, down to the rims. What are they?

ps. My set is a dirty, unloved and stored away clone, though

Sixty Fiver

Zeus Gigante... drool worthy hubs that polish up to a mirror like finish.





https://www.velobase.com/ViewComponen...110&AbsPos=255

Puget Pounder

These are old Suzue hubs that I bought off ebay, polished up, and laced to Cr18s. They spin up quite nicely!

sakeed123

This is exactly correct. A road bike does not need the trangulation in the perpendiculatr to this like a track bike yeilding wider flages for triangulation strength in the "drive" rotation, nor do they need as much lateral cornering strength as well as I mentioned they do not need any suspension type absorbtion of flex in spoke crossings or resilience over logged miles as road wheels do. The spokes in a track bike hub will take shorter life spans in intended use pertaining to miles ridden as well as harshness or those miles due to terrain not found in something like a veldrone.

Spoke crossings will weaken a trangulation sturcture from straight sides of the triangle structure- these crossings are what give or flex yeiding a "suspension in lacing design (Spokes have to bend the straight pathes around eachother to void straight sides of a triangle)- however, they each also aid in supporting one another- this is the key to logevity and flex combined. THe old saying, "if it don't give it can break". The shorter and greater angled spokes pressing on the larger flange hubs will exert alot more lateral pressure as well as what I mentioned before about the stress cycles applied to tension and compression of the spokes in the greater lateral angle from vertical. Anything vertical to vertical will support greater gravitaional loads that the same at an angled horizontal from vertical. The metal has to duty cycle more and the end result will be alot sooner failure potential of spkoes and/or hubs over a duration of use. Since the critical key to sustained road bike performance is weight and aero, the torque triangulation is a lesser factor then the rotation weight and aerodynamic profile considered in the gravitational load trangulation as well as the major factor of reliability and ride quality. Longer spokes are easier to maintain equal spoke tension from what I estimate. It would follow the same principle to relation of car spring coil wire. The longer the wire, the more consistant the duty cycle and the lesser the rate change in fequency cycles (ie- compression and tension waves). All and all, bicycle wheels are quite simple next to the complexity of chassis dynamics. There is only a small factor in varieties to choose from and pretty much everything has been tested and weighed and most rims or wheelssets already have charts on load ratings vs weight savings. It al boils down to weight weenies at that point and what will last longest while being light and aero. Small hubs favor this because it allows the use of outer circuference componants that are more aero to tie into smaller diameter hubs more reliably over long use durations on a gear set bike without harsh load dragrace style starts and banked corners... or jumps and bumps of a heavier duty MTB wide flange hub designed for wider and stronger rims with heavier spoke gauges.

Quality of fabrication and materials use seemed to be alot better in "production" over-the-counter componants in years past. Nowa days the high end stuff can be so much better, but at outrageous prices and showered beyond the influx of cheaper and more appealing componants through market trend settings. I personally think a wider hub flange engineered properly would be the ultimate wheel design, but price is outrageous and not worth the apples to oranges.

The ideal thing to me is to machine a hub with large flanges that are indentical in offset on the nondrive side as a 10 cassete drive side in vertical symmetry to the rim. Keeping short spokes at a narrow lateral angle with a deep v rim, but also having good drive trangulation for trust and disc braking. Keeping the offsets equal with shorter spokes would help reliabilty greatly of the shorter spoke duty cycle and help keep spoke tensions symmetrical like a front rim brake road wheel. Same goes for the front- it boils down to cost effectiveness- try and build it and sell it cheaper that the average quality small flange hub? Not gonna happen.

Soil_Sampler

read jobst brandt pages 64 and 129.
what drive side flange size does to torque transfer.

old's'cool

I recently built a very similar 4X 40H wheel on a low flange Maillaird hub with a modern tandem rim for my mainstay commuter bike, i.e. the Pug Versailles. No pics yet, will remedy that when moving house is completed.

I didn't notice any difficulty building 4X, there is of course more interlacing to be done. I need to study on why it would be easier with high flange hub.