Vulcanized Tire Patch Notes Flats
 

More failures of my vulcanized tire patches and I am still perplexed - I ride park roads and back roads with just enough clutter that I get frequent flats (Goat Heads) - No biggy its just the cost of ridding - BUT - Over the past two years I have had one hell of a time getting my patches to stick right and last - I have tubes with patches 10 years old and they are still holding...

Is it the patch: No using the same old patches
http://www.parktool.com/uploads/imag...elp/patch4.jpg

Is it the tube: No patches on my old red tubes have failed lately and the Chinese and USA and German inner tubes

Is it the glue: Ah.. Haaa - Heres the story - Got a flat on my Van and took the tire in for repair and as I was standing around (trading lies about Stick Bows and Bowdark) one of the guys opened a new box of tire patches and threw away the can of Vulcanizing Cement it contained??? What??? - I asked him why he threw it away and he said "all the new vulcanizing cements are no good"... We use a can of the old stuff...

So over the past few years we have lost the good stuff in our vulcanizing cement - That is Toluene and other solvents that assisted the patch in a true bond.

I found a site in China that has the old stuff but they do not export to the USA - It could be that good Vulcanizing cement is going to get as hard find as Lead Paint...

Hope some of you guys can add more data to this thread and maybe even find a few tubes of the old stuff for us guys who still repair their tubes. (I am sure the kit below has a tube of dried out cement but its from the 1920s so it must have had all the good stuff...)

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imag...epatchkit1.jpg

Back on line for a short while - Have been too busy to do anything but clean up after our forest fires - All well here... Finally getting out to ride...

Just go to your local auto supply and get a can of the stuff for car tires. you can even use the patches if you cut them down or make your own from pieces of tube (glue both sides and stick together when glue dries) it is much better than the crappy consumer glue.

What's a patch?

I think I might try Weldwood contact cement. Sticks like 'ell, though I'm not sure if it still contains VOC's or not ...but it sure smells as bad as it always did. By the way, if you ride through a lot of goatheads, may I make a shameless commercial plug and offer to send you a set of my Tire Savers? Please PM me if interested. Thanks.

I have used tubular glue too and it held fine (Continental)

If the place that is fixing car tires is getting the crappy stuff from their supplier, then the auto supply place is probably getting the same stuff....

This might work. However, the instructions for Weldwood contact cement say to apply a layer of glue and wait until it becomes glossy--about 15 minutes, but not more than an hour--and then press the glued material together. I bet the patch with stay, but I wouldn't want to wait on the side of the road than long while the contact cement sets up.

Someone here (Scooper? unworthy1?) posted a photo of a tool which presses little indentations into the patch and helps the patch stick to the tire. Personally, I use my fingernail to press small grooves along the outer edge of the patch. It helps to ensure a seal all around the edge, and also sort of fuses the orange part of the patch into the tire.

I work for a Lexus dealer as a tech, and the tire patch glue we use is as good as it has ever been. In 25+years behind a wrench 0 failed tire patches.

Yes, the vulcanizing cement isn't like it used to be. An old can of the stuff from the auto parts used to smell fierce and you knew some brain cells were dissolving. ;)
Getting and using the good stuff isn't a problem while working in the shop/home. But on the road, options are few. I've avoided those new glueless patches, rarely worked for us.
I've always advised after roughing up the area with sandpaper, to follow up with a wipe down of alcohol to promote vulcanizing. This step removes more of the mold release agents on the butyl rubber's surface. You can pack a few alcohol wipes in your patch kit.

I recently picked up a tube of Slime glue, and it was as worthless as their self stick patches. I get something here, at the bike shops, that works well enough. I recently found a bulk supply of Rema patches, and that has helped too. But generally speaking, I tend to agree with the OP.
Here it is: Thumbs UP Rubber Solution. For all rubber repairs. Comes in a yellow tube.
Good idea with the alcohol.

I have a huge can of cement I bought 13 years ago when I opened my lawnmower repair business that is still more then half full that I have been using for my bike patches which most of them are antique in there own right. I use lighter fluid to clean the tube both before and after I ruff it up where the patch will go put the cement on and wait till it dries then put the patch on and work it from the center out with my fingers and it's good to go, this is exactly what the instructions say to do on a repair kit box that has got to be 30 years old.

Thanks Ya All...

Hey - Manufacturer in China says they ship the good stuff to a repackager here in the USA who sells it in cans - This must be the real stuff cause they won't even ship to or sell it in some states...

http://www.gemplers.com/img/can-rema-cold-7A.jpg

http://www.gemplers.com/product/7A/8...anizing-Cement

OK - Heres another link for the small patch kit that has the good stuff but if you are in one of the states that does not allow sale of its glue you may have to order off the internet in small amounts - (Note: I have no connection with this company and if there are other patch kits that have to good glue in them I would really apreciate the info>>>)

http://www.rematiptop.com/parts.php?sid=4

I don't buy it...

I've used tire patch glue from numerous manufacturers and haven't found my patches failing.

How long does it take for one of your patches to fail with "new" glue?

I've been using the Rema patches and Rema cement I bought a couple years ago and never had a problem.

Many years ago (i'm not going to own up to how many) when i first learned to patch car tubes I was taught a trick by an old timer. I still patch bike tubes the way he taught me to do car tubes and i have had great results.
1 clean the area around the hole
2 spread the glue out at least 2 or 3 inches beyond the hole
3 peal the backing of the patch and get it ready to put on
4 Take a lighter and light the glue on fire let it burn for 10 or 20 seconds then apply the patch over the hole
5 let it burn a couple more seconds then blow the fire out.
I know it sounds goofy and dangerous but he said the heat helped vulcanize the patch.
I still use this method today and have had very good results. Also if you use a small piece of thin plastic over the patch (like saran wrap or only slightly thicker also it needs to be slightly larger than the patch) it will help it last longer. patches used to come with this allready applied to the patch. The tube moves around inside the tire and this bit of plastic helps to keep the patch from hanging on the tube and starting to curl.

You are describing the old "hot vulcanizing" patches.
That was how they were designed to be used.
Modern "cold vulcanizing" patches eliminate the need for the open flame.

Cements and glues bond on a molecular level, that is to say that the molecules of adhesive link to the molecules of rubber. Thus, anything that gets between the surface molecules to be bonded, like dirt or oils from you fingers will hinder the bond. Adding texture or indents to the rubber (even sanding) will not make the bond better without a clean bond. Adding texture, indents and sanding will expose a cleaner surface as well as increasing the area of bond (adding all those ridges and valleys increases the area). Cements and glues have a "shelf life".
Your best bond will be one that is clean with a tight fit.

Good point. I was thinking of patches done at home. On the road, I carry a spare tube, but I can understand that some folks also patch on the side of the road.

On the road, temporary patches, e.g. Park GP-2.
At home: Rema patches & cement.

Thats the point - I never had this problem before - Even long ago when using sewups - I did find an old patch kit with the old type vulcanizing cement and those patches are not failing - So this is something new - It could be that the patch kits you have gotten still have the good stuff in them so just keep an eye out is case you have one in the future that fails - By the way - I repair bicycle tubes on the neighborhood kids bikes as long as they help me - I personally don't get more than one flat every few months...



I'll keep this in mind - Most of the time I have removed the plastic covering before putting the tube back on - Thanks

I have heard of people successfully using those little scab patches but none of mine held air for more than 20 min - I attribute it to the Texas heat - It was summer when I tried them and 99 plus degrees did not offer them good compatibility...

They don't work for more than about that long in the cold of New York, either. That's been my experience, anyway. I just carry a spare tube. I have a patch kit in case of a 2nd puncture, but thankfully that has not yet happened to me.

Does anybody remember the patches that came with a clamp and you lit them on fire. They had a flamible tray and when they burned out you waited for them to cool. The patch was then melted to the tube. Those were the best patches ever. I was wondering if there was a way of doing that today, sorta home made.

I remember those! Back in the late 60s. My uncle patched a tube with that method.