I'd like to see one of their new super duty Swedish cow leather butt buster models.
Maybe just to look at.

It's been so long since I had an older 70's era Brooks it's difficult to remember the details. But I think I recall the seat was harder back then then the newer models. Because I recall not being as comfortable on it as I am with today's models. So maybe they use to use heavier and thicker leather and thus took a lot longer to break in. All I know is that both of my Brooks, a B17 ti and a Swift ti are very nice to sit on and ride for long distances. I also noticed that it appears the weight of even the standard Brooks B17 with steel rails is lighter the older models, probably due to better lighter modern steel rails and thinner leather, obviously the ti rails are lighter still.

My problem with Brooks these days is that they went up in price by about 180% over the last 7 years, I paid $175 for my Swift Ti job and now their almost $300 and I bought mine in 2004; I bought the B17 ti about 10 years ago and paid $125 and now their around $235. I hate to say it, but I doubt that I will ever buy another Brooks saddle with today's prices. There are some lower cost alternative leather saddles, but having never tried them I can't compare; but Velo Orange has a Grand Cru TI rail leather saddle for just $195.

Also keep in mind when buying a leather saddle is to follow the manufactures care instructions to the letter, not some forum members advice, or a friend etc, because if the saddle fails from doing some other treatment plan Brooks will void their warranty...kind of an expensive lesson to learn if you deviate from their instructions. Since I do tour with those Brooks and rain could be an issue, I use a saddle cover to protect the saddle.

FYI, the VO saddles are made by Gyes in Taiwan. You can buy a very similar saddle from them, not VO branded, for less than the VO ones.

http://www.crowcycleco.com/gyes

I have a few Brooks saddles new and old. My favorite though is the newest one, a B17 standard with laced skirts. Maybe it's the laces that tighten it up but the rear platform is the most comfortable. 8-9 years ago there were many quality issues. A B17 Champion I have from that period is very asymmetrical including the skirts. It was the one I received after returning the first which was worse.

Has anyone ever tried those Gyes or VO saddles?

I bought 2 of the Gyes, but haven't ridden them yet. They seem nice for the price.

Let us know when you do. I keep going back on forth of the pros/cons of saving money on one vs. the returnability of a Brooks through Wallingford.

I have a fair number of Brooks saddles, both new and older:
1 B-17 bought new
3 B-17 Specials, nearly new
1 B-17 Narrow, older
3 Pros, one newish used, two from the 70s

My own impressions of these is that the leather is definitely thicker on older ones I have than on newer; and that the leather on Pros is thicker than B-17s. Chrome frames vs black -- well that's just changing times; chrome is more expensive, and less environmentally friendly. Square-cut noses are the signal of an older saddle (I prefer those). It would surprise me to learn that Brooks was using more than one style nose on a model at the same time.

Their return policy sounds ok, though it's vague on time frame, all they say is this: "Returns & Replacements
First of all, we want our customers to be happy with whatever purchase you make. So, in order to be as fair as possible, we have the following returns and replacement policy: We will accept returns with refund on all items that are returned in their original, undamaged condition. If you bought the item in error, we will ask that you pay only the return shipping to us. If we grossly misrepresented the item being sold, or we send you the wrong item, we'll pay the return shipping. How does that sound?"

That does for quality control, but not if they feel like crap when you get on them. As soon as you mount them, that warranty is void.

Whoa, let's be fair to Wallingford Bike; their guarantee on Brooks saddles is "satisfaction or your purchase price back":
* 6 Month UNCONDITIONAL SATISFACTION GUARANTEE - new BROOKS saddles. Return your new saddle at any time within six-months of the ship date for a full refund of the price of the saddle. Shipping will not be refunded unless there is a manufacturing defect that would make the return a factory warranty issue.

I've never heard of anyone who wasn't satisfied with that arrangement. They auction returned saddles on eBay (don't resell them as unused), which is also a good deal.

I bought both of mine from Wallingford, but you realize that when you buy it "used" that 6 month thing doesn't apply!

Nor does it apply to any other used saddle you buy, unless the seller is your friend. I'd be willing to bet that if you purchased one of their used saddles and weren't satisfied upon receiving it, that Wallingford would take it back or trade you for another.

I think the shape has changed on the B72. I have several older ones with the pebble grain top surface and find them comfortable.
I bought a new one a couple of years ago and besides now having a smooth top surface, it has a different overall shape and is not comfortable for me. It seems to be shaped more like a B66. I had the new one on one of my bikes but took it off and replaced it with an older one.

There are a few threads on Gyes and other-branded Brooks imitators or followers. Few of us have been happy or at least written about being happy. I tried a V-O branded Swallow-based saddle, and found it to be sagging out right off the bat, and I could not get it comfortable. V-O sold it as flawed, and it may have been why, though I recall it was to have been a cosmetic issue.

I be willing to bet they won't! Wallingford for a long time sold return saddles on their web site before turning it over to someone who posts them on E-Bay, and their policy was no returns on used saddles for comfort issues, you could return for manufacture defect.

Just saying that you will still spend more money on a used returned Brooks saddle then you would for a Gyes and have the same return policy. But, I have no idea if the Gyes saddle is any good for either comfort or long term life, so that in it self is kind of important, but the same would be true with any saddle in that price range, but if you bought from most LBS's or Wallingford at least you could take/send it back for comfort issues.

Did they replace the saddle or screw you with it? And no amount of retensioning took the sag out? Seems like a manufacturing defect not cosmetic.

It was sold by V-O as-is on Ebay, no warrantee, at about 60% of list. V-O is not as good as Wallingford, but I wouldn't judge them on this transaction alone. I tightened it as much as I felt worthwhile, since the sit-bone areas were not tightening and the center ridge (aka ass hatchet) was beginning to become prominent. It was either bad leather on that sample, bad leather on the whole production run. Another issue is taht I didn't want to tighten it past a point of no return. We know Brookses can be damaged by too much tension (unlike a Selle AnAtomica), and it isn't helped by loosening. Nobody here or at V-O had any clue about what is recommended for this model of saddle. I did manage to sell it for pretty cheap, with disclosure. Glad it's gone!

Rek, you seem rather down on any company stating a warrantee. Why?

If you want to lknow more about Gyes experiences, search BF for Gyes and for Velo Orange saddles. Over the past four years or so, a lot has been said. Ditto for Wallingford - BFers have had a lot of good experience with them. Best approach has been to discuss your saddle needs with Bill at Wallbike, and let them advise you. People here who have done that have usually been satisfied on the first saddle, or at worst after one replacement. I'm not sure they will do a second replacement, but I just don't know.

I'm not down on Gyes, I was responding to another poster mentioning purchasing returned Brooks off E-bay, but you don't get any return rights that way for fit issues and some not even for manufacturing defects with a Brooks saddle that way just as you wouldn't with the Gyes. Basically saying if you're willing to purchase a Brooks off of E-bay then why not save money and get the Gyes at less the half the cost?

Amazon is the only place I could find a Gyes review and they only had three, one was very negative, the other two were very good. And not much said about the VO either. One thing I did read which I forgot to mention about the Brooks, is that the rails do not offer much forward movement on the seat post. If you're the type of person who needs the seat slid far rearward (in other words the seat post will sit toward the front of the saddle rather then the rear) for fit purposes the Brooks will not allow much leeway for that, but I read that the Gyes does allow for more rearward movement then the Brooks.

For what its worth, I've been riding leather saddles for 40 years and don't think I've ever tightened one. I had 22 years on a used Brooks Pro when my bike was stolen 1984. I now have about 25 years on a B17 and it still looks pretty new and hard as a rock but still more comfortable than anything else I've ridden. I hated the modern thing on my loaner in Spain!