Smoked Chrome - How does it happen?
 

My current project is a Ciocc Designer 84 with smoked chrome. The fork had the usual rust problems, which were somewhat helped by an OA bath.

As I was polishing the forks with some 0000 steelwool, the smoked finish came off to reveal regular chrome. I was actually happy about this, since I really didn't care for the "smoked" look.

Today while trolling Ebay, I ran across an listing that claimed that the smoked chrome on Ciocc's was just a coat of colored lacquer. This seems to be true based on my experience. Has anyone had a similar experience?

If this is the case, I wouldn't mind removing the "smoke" from the stays as well. Don't worry, my bike isn't anywhere near mint condition - I simply prefer the look of regular chrome.

The look comes from a tinted clear over the chromeor from "black chrome" plating which is actually nickel. The Nickel needs attention to stay pretty, much more than chrome or clear coated chrome.

Art Stump hand many of his small number of frames done in a "black Chrome" finish by Highland Plating of Los Angeles. Still in business. Pretty stunning.

So it's basically a low-key variation on the chromo velato finish that's so popular on Italian bikes? That makes sense.

One of the smoked chrome finishes you see quite a bit, the A-D Vent Noir:

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...II/file-18.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...II/file-13.jpg

Do you think it's the same process?

Scott

Interesting note - In the Army sent a case of 40 1911s back to the depot for inspection and reparkerization - One in the case had a nickel chromed Slide - When we got the arms back the one with the Nickel chromed slide was of a Blue/Gray/Green patina - It was just beautiful - We knew it was not regulation so we put it aside for the boss (Gen Sanderson SETAF)... Anyway I just remember it was real pretty...

"As I was polishing the forks with some 0000 steelwool"
QUOTE thinktubes


Never use steel wool or any other abrasive on chrome or nickel plating.


Regards,
J T

0000 (fine) steel wool is not abrasive to chrome.

Many powder coaters carry a smoked chrome and black chrome. Looks great.

There is great difficulty getting the black chrome to show up properly in pics:

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg18/...jpg&res=medium

I'm repeating hearsay, but I read somewhere that the "black chrome" used on the A-D Vent Noir was actually a "hard chrome" finish, similar to that kind of plating done to motorcycle fork sliders, etc. Don't know why that kind of chrome plating would be used to provide or permit the darker color, but that's what I was told. Other versions of the Vent Noir came with a matte black painted finish, not nearly as attractive, IMHO.

SheldonBrown's site has this info:
"The company also introduced the Vent Noir. A step below the Team frameset, it had a very unique feature. The frame went through a "secret process" which made it impervious to scratches. It was not painted. From what we could tell, it was hard-chromed (the type of chrome you use on engine crankshaft journals, not the kind for hubcaps), and then some sort of anodizing on top. You could take a knife or a file, and you couldn't scratch it. The factory never did tell us what they did. But it worked!"
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/vrbn-a-f...austro-daimler

"0000 (fine) steel wool is not abrasive to chrome."
QUOTE Toeslider


RULE No I:
Never use steel wool or any other abrasive on chrome or nickel plating.

RULE No II:
Never use steel wool or any other abrasive on chrome or nickel plating.

RULE No III:
Reread Reread RULE No I & RULE No II.


Regards,
J T

The chrome on my Montagner looks FANTASTIC because I ignored this and used 0000 steel wool in conjunction with simichrome.

While I don't necessarily agree upon the harmfulness of the product as an abrasive, there is another argument against 0000 steel wool: It will leave microscopic particles of bare steel in the chrome, allowing rust to form.

If someone so wishes to use an abrasive, the best choice is fine bronze wool.

-Kurt

Here's the fork in its original state - trust me, the steelwool didn't hurt it.

http://www.thinktubes.com/ebay2010/e...CnQ~~60_12.jpg

"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here; this is the WAR ROOM!
QUOTE President Muffti - Dr Strangelove.

I will say this right off. Never again will I post anything re chrome/nickel plating to these forums.

1) I agree with cudak888 in that steel wool or any raw ferrous metal will embed themselves in the plating's pores.
(Guess most of you didn't realise that this type of "coating" was porous! Think again.)
Also, annodising "grows" into the parent metal as well as deposits on the surface of same, unlike plating.

2) Similarly, the "mixing" of steel wool to clean/polish aluminium when raw or anodised, will reduce it's thickness and may
become trapped in areas where you don't want the dissimilarity of metals, eg: Al rim to eyelet interface. The so trapped
iron will pit the s/s eyelet and corrode the Al rim. This is only exasperated by the addition of water. (Read "rain".)

3) "Chrome" is actually Copper/Nickel/Chrome, and is known as a finish, but is unlike a "paint" which can be "cut" to
increase brilliance by leveling it out. There have been times when a poster has asked/tried to "sand out the scratch"
in the plating; ain't goin' to happen. Every instance of polishing the chrome will degrade it's micoscopic thickness until none
remains and you are down to the once underlying nickel. This can readily seen by shining a flashlight (in a darkened room)
obliquely to the area in question after a period of time which has allowed the nickel to oxidize to it's yellowish colour.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY! You now have to polish your now removed chrome, actually nickel, to make it shine. This degredation
does not happen over night unless you attack the "I really want to clean the chrome/rust/pitting problem", but over a
longer time; just every time you polish the chrome.

Over and out.

-30-

Regards,
J T

Uh oh here we go again!

You dummies, you're supposed to use Sandpaper. 60 Grit.

And here I thought I'd walk into an intelligent discussion regarding how Smoked Chrome Plating works.

From what I understand about the Austro-Daimler process its not simply chrome covered with lacquer.

^^+1 My 80's Giant Iguana has a smoked chrome finish and does not appear to be topcoated. Someone should eventually ask a Chrome shop how it's done, but for now the speculation in entertaining.

My personal belief is that it's an ancient process which can only be achieved during the new moon phase or when Mars is aligned with Sven Yorgosens silo in Wisconsin.

it's just regular chrome that spent some time in the back of a VW Bus.

Just my 2 cents, as i've seen this "discussion" before, I side with JT Cunningham. While he can come across a bit "abrasive" (pun intended) he is correct on this issue, and I get the feeling that he works or has worked in this field.

As for smoked chrome, you're going to need something like this if you want to do the entire frame...

http://www.avalonwine.com/Web-Smoker.jpg

Ok, I'll be man enough to clarify my position, if Mr. Wizard up there agrees to offer some suggestions that use common sense and the context of the thread.

Sure, steel wool is abrasive to chrome. So is a cotton buffing wheel, if you attach it to an angle grinder and use as much pressure as you can apply for an extended period of time. In the context of this thread, we are talking about removing rust from chrome. If your chrome is rusty, more damage has already been done to it than you can do with a properly administered dose of 0000 steel wool and your lubricant of choice, such as chrome polish. Polish alone with a non-abrasive rag will likely never remove the rust, or at least not in a timely fashion. 0000 steel wool and chrome polish, applied with a light touch, will remove rust from chrome fairly quickly, and leave a very nice looking finish. It won't scratch if used correctly, at least not on a visible level. Is it doing something microscopically? Probably. I don't know, I don't own a microscope. Steel wool and chrome polish can make horrible looking chrome look almost new again, but it will not be new. It will probably need maintenance down the road, but it is a much more cost-effective option than re-chroming.

One point that was made that a lot of people don't understand is that chrome cannot be polished like other metals. Once a scratch is there you can't get rid of it. It is, however, a very durable surface and resists scratching under normal conditions.

If your chrome doesn't have any rust, there is no need to use steel wool on it, but if it is already rusted the steel wool will do more good than harm, if you use it correctly. Taking that into consideration, 0000 steel wool will not introduce any visible scratches to the chrome when used with a lubricant like chrome polish, windex, or WD40. 000, 00, 0, or anything more coarse probably will.

If you have a better way to remove rust from chrome and leave a presentable finish, without stripping and replating, I'd certainly like to hear it.

+1...sure, it might leave some fibers that will rust, but will that rust be as terrible as what was removed already? Probably not. II'll supply photos of the difference...and it wouldn't have been possible without 0000 steel wool and simichrome.

I don't know if Schwinn used the same process as the European manufacturers, but the smoked chrome on my High Sierra appears to be a multi-layer process.

There was an area on the dropout where a layer of the dark chrome was peeling up, and I took a small loose flake off and inspected it. It was definitely metallic and not paint, and beneath it is a bright non-smoked layer.

I've had pretty good success giving pretty nasty parts an Oxalic bath, not sure what that does to the actual chrome but the rust is gone, and then smooth out the particularly bad pitted areas with 0000 steel wool