Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Do not judge a frame by the dropouts

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Do not judge a frame by the dropouts

Old 11-21-11, 03:17 PM
  #1  
seypat
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,710
Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1777 Post(s)
Liked 684 Times in 488 Posts
Do not judge a frame by the dropouts

I remember a yellow Gitane thread a while back where people were assuming the bike was gaspipe because it did not have a RD hanger. Here is another one. 531 frame and fork but no RD hanger.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Vintage-...item2a16299bc4

What kind of dropout is that? I see a word where it connects to the chainstay. Maybe I'm wrong and there is a hanger behind the claw.

Last edited by seypat; 11-21-11 at 03:35 PM.
seypat is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 03:57 PM
  #2  
ftwelder
Senior Member
 
ftwelder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: vermont
Posts: 3,091

Bikes: Many

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
There are lots of sweet bikes with stamped drops. I can think of a few bikes with Bramptons or BSA I would like to have. I think the drops on that bike are unusual forged drops. 'pretty interesting I think.
ftwelder is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 04:04 PM
  #3  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,383
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 773 Post(s)
Liked 350 Times in 283 Posts
those are "early" Simplex dropouts. Most people call them stamped, but they do have a little "dimension" to them, plus the name is embossed and (IIRC) they usually have a RD hanger, just not a threaded one since it's for a Simplex (but this one is missing). The Gitane's DOs were not these, they were stamped and had no hanger...still was a decent bike but not as nice as this LeJeune.

Last edited by unworthy1; 11-21-11 at 04:13 PM.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 04:06 PM
  #4  
CV-6 
If I own it, I ride it
 
CV-6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,203

Bikes: Lejeune, Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré, Springfield, Motobecane, John Howard, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 468 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 287 Times in 155 Posts
Pretty sure that is a Simplex forged dropout. The lack of a hanger is not so much an indicator as whether the drop is forged or stamped. Even then, there is no firm rule. Example of no hanger Simplex below

__________________
Please do not "like" my posts. This isn't Facebook.

Lynn Travers

Photos

CV-6 is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 04:06 PM
  #5  
Sixty Fiver
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Posts: 27,268

Bikes: See my sig...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 17 Posts
My Raleigh Gran Sport is 531 with chromed stays and 531 forks and has stamped drop outs, albeit nicer ones.

One should never judges a frame because the dropouts are stamped as on higher quality bikes these dropouts are as good as and cast ones... take a look at track bikes and you will find that many of the track ends are stamped out of rather thick plate. From a material standpoint the steel used in a quality stamped or cut dropout may actually be less prone to failure than a poor quality casting.

I have repaired and replaced a great number of cast dropouts that have cracked... cannot recall ever having to repair a stamped drop out unless it was badly bent due to the wheel eating a derailleur.

Consider also that a very high percentage of the bikes rolling around this planet have stamped drop outs and they keep going year after year and decade after decade.
Sixty Fiver is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 04:10 PM
  #6  
Sixty Fiver
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Posts: 27,268

Bikes: See my sig...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 17 Posts
Looks like a cast dropout on the Lejeune.

Dropouts with threaded adjusters tend to be the most fragile as the drilling presents a point of weakness if the dropout is damaged and can result in cracking when the dropout is cold set back into place.

Of course, a cast dropout is a little more resistant to bending although these are made of milder steel to allow them to survive this and be cold set back into position.
Sixty Fiver is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 04:17 PM
  #7  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 15,726
Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1843 Post(s)
Liked 683 Times in 535 Posts
The fold-over seat stay top ends are more of an indicator of this bikes price point than the dropouts.
It should ride well, it may not even get an opening bid, its big. If it does get an opening bid the new owner will get a nice riding bike, and at a decent price.
Lots of cleaning to go on this one.
repechage is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 04:31 PM
  #8  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,383
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 773 Post(s)
Liked 350 Times in 283 Posts
actually, it is more of an indicator for a bike being French. There are plenty of French bikes of pretty good quality (Gitane TdF, LeJeunes like this, Heyletts, etc.) that use that "cheap looking" stay cap treatment. Some of these have all 531 tubing, forged dropouts, Ideale saddles and even Campagnolo gruppos.
unworthy1 is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 05:00 PM
  #9  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 21,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 1,227 Times in 888 Posts
a lot of Simplex dropouts lost their hanger due to laziness. Pretty sure that bike had one originally.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 05:26 PM
  #10  
prettyshady
12345
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: south france
Posts: 1,248
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
62cm frame?

looks a fun bike.
prettyshady is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 05:43 PM
  #11  
jet sanchEz
Senior Member
 
jet sanchEz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 8,736
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 832 Post(s)
Liked 519 Times in 240 Posts
One of the first things I look at is the drops. The drops tell a lot about the build.
jet sanchEz is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 06:06 PM
  #12  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
I have those same thin Simplex dropouts on my Jeunet. There is no derailer hanger and there never was one. I can't tell of they're forged or simply stamped. The three dimensionality is very slight.

Sixty Fiver:
Forged, not cast. There's a big difference. Castings tend to be weak. Forgings do not.

Last edited by Grand Bois; 11-21-11 at 06:11 PM.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 06:11 PM
  #13  
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,922
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 366 Post(s)
Liked 178 Times in 117 Posts
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
that "cheap looking" stay cap treatment.
Hmmm. The bike frames that I have that I like the most have the semi-wrap seat stay detail: Bob Jackson and a couple Motobécanes. To my eye, it's elegant.
Charles Wahl is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 07:05 PM
  #14  
bibliobob
Senior Member
 
bibliobob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,962

Bikes: '53/'54 Bianchi CDM, '62'62ish Altenburger Cinelli Mod B, '69 Rene Herse, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '73-74 Colnago Super,, '74 Cinelli SC, '78 counterfeit Confente, '82 Medici Gran Turismo, '82 3Rensho SRA, '85 Eddy Merckx Pro

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 6 Posts
I have had two Gitane TDFs. Both have forged drops, and no RD hanger. One appears to be stock and the other looks like it may have been trimmed?

Seat post size is a better indicator (with Cinellis being a notable exception).

and, plenty of older, nice British bikes (50s and earlier?) don't have forged drops...
bibliobob is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 07:25 PM
  #15  
divineAndbright 
Senior Member
 
divineAndbright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ontario
Posts: 2,234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
One of those things I will always consider a sign of a cheap frame, also just cause its 531 doesn't mean its good either.. CCM did some 531 frames and surprise, surprise they were stamped drop outs with Hi-Ten stays, Im assuming a 25.8 ID seat tube, junk. I imagine there were plenty of raleighs like that too, among a bunch of others.
divineAndbright is offline  
Old 11-21-11, 07:31 PM
  #16  
bassogap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 292

Bikes: 2005 Cannondale R5000 1986 Basso Gap(Super Record) 1986 Schwinn Voyager SP 1975 Schwinn Paramount Track Bike 1974 Raleigh RRA

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
years ago i won a falcon 531 frame in a bike race. it had cheap dropouts, and was made with 531 straight-gauge tubing...
bassogap is offline  
Old 11-22-11, 04:25 AM
  #17  
randyjawa 
Senior Member
 
randyjawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada - burrrrr!
Posts: 10,743

Bikes: 1958 Rabeneick 120D, 1968 Legnano Gran Premio, 196? Torpado Professional, 2000 Marinoni Piuma

Mentioned: 186 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1082 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 865 Times in 520 Posts
I agree with the title of this thread. Though I used to rely on certain frame set characteristics to determine quality, I no longer do so. Nor do I swoon when I see Reynolds 531, or Columbus Special, or what ever. I have come to understand that a nice bicycle can be hiding behind less than exotic design and construction, the Peugeot UO8 being a prime example.
__________________
"98% of the bikes I buy are projects".
randyjawa is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
r0ckh0und
Classic & Vintage
13
01-23-18 08:42 AM
rootboy
Classic & Vintage
32
12-28-11 10:42 PM
jonwvara
Classic & Vintage
27
11-01-11 05:37 PM
Charles Wahl
Classic & Vintage
2
05-10-11 05:10 PM
jonwvara
Classic & Vintage
7
12-20-10 02:46 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.