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Campagnolo yesterday, today, and tomorrow (article)

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Campagnolo yesterday, today, and tomorrow (article)

Old 11-27-11, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
I considered the article to be about a visit and interview, with a little background. It affirmed some of my assumptions about Campy, and is similar to an article I once read about the Eddy Merckx-Pinarello cooperation. I rarely read page after page of a bike magazine article (while I'm waiting for my wife in Books A Million). I just wonder if, as our Edmonton friend says, more bikes came spec'd with Campy, or at least offered so, what would be the result? There is a waiting list, of sorts, now, for Campy groups at ribble and PBK.

Beginning with Sora or Tiagra probably does yield an upgrade later on. Ford did that with ******* and Tempos, because the research showed that very low margins on these vehicles helped sell bigger Fords to the same buyers over 75% of the time.

Campy kind of says, to me, "if you take the risk and spend the money, we think you'll be glad you did" on components, but maybe in a more confident/arrogant way, tending towards "we think you'll be glad you did" with a little "this is our product, take it or leave it" mixed in. I did, they were right, I'll take it.

I'm about to move a relative/friend into 8-sp Ergo. He prefers Campy because it's Campy and that gives him cred with his crowd. He is not a fan of the finicky Syncro. My guess is that riding Ergo will sway him from "having it because it's Campy" to using it because it's excellent. My guess is also that he'll be asking me to upgrade the same bike to 10sp Campy less than a year from now.
Maybe he'll upgrade to 10 or even 11 speed.

..or maybe he won't.

My 1993 Colnago came to me with 8 speed Campy, and it works so well, I can't imagine fussing with it.

In addition, I rode a Soma San Marcos yesterday with the new Veloce gruppo, and I can't imagine many enthusiasts needing much more performance than that "entry level" gruppo.
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Old 11-27-11, 08:13 AM
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There's practically nowhere for a prospective buyer to test ride a Campy outfitted bike. If you're lucky your LBS might have a Dogma with SR 11 sitting on a pedestal for show, but they're not gonna let you spin it around the parking lot.

But if you want to take a chance with that 11 speed carbon wonder, albeit sight unseen, it can be between your legs two days after handing over the credit card to any LBS. The QBP distribution house, available to practically every bike store in this country, have all Campy groups and wheels in their catalog, as does BTI and I'm sure others.

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Old 11-27-11, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jan nikolajsen
There's practically nowhere for a prospective buyer to test ride a Campy outfitted bike. It you're lucky your LBS might have a Dogma with SR 11 sitting on a pedestal for show, but they're not gonna let you spin it around the parking lot.

But if you want to take a chance with that 11 speed carbon wonder, albeit sight unseen, it can be between your legs two days after handing over the credit card to any LBS. The QBP distribution house, available to practically every bike store in this country, have all Campy groups and wheels in their catalog, as does BTI and I'm sure others.
Unless you happen to ride occasionally with the owner.

He's been trying to sell me a carbon bike for ten years, and was astonished when I purchased a friend's Colnago Extreme Power recently.

In general though, most shops in town here don't stock Campy equipped models.

I can count on one hand the shops that do.

The racing shop in my neighborhood has a Wilier with Campy Super Record 11, a Basso with Super Record 11, and a Colnago C59 Italia, also with Super Record 11.

All in the front windows.

Other than worrying a little about smash and grab, I admire his strong statement about state of the art performance machines.

...and his belief in Campagnolo as a viable, and sought after mark for racing machines.

You go into the shop and you soon discover "performance" bicycles are his niche, and Campy is everywhere to be seen.

These niche shops will sell you whatever you can dream up, as long as you bring your credit card.

The only area that Campy misses the mark for me is in off-road components, but they seen to be making strides.

https://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/groupset/catid_16.jsp
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Old 11-27-11, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jan nikolajsen
There's practically nowhere for a prospective buyer to test ride a Campy outfitted bike. If you're lucky your LBS might have a Dogma with SR 11 sitting on a pedestal for show, but they're not gonna let you spin it around the parking lot.

But if you want to take a chance with that 11 speed carbon wonder, albeit sight unseen, it can be between your legs two days after handing over the credit card to any LBS. The QBP distribution house, available to practically every bike store in this country, have all Campy groups and wheels in their catalog, as does BTI and I'm sure others.
In the US.

There was just an article in the WSJ about Italian business. Because of the government, growth beyond a certain point is not always desirable. Too many rules, regs and taxes at a certain point and it isn't worth the hassle. I can't say for sure about Campagnolo, but with only 5 people for selling into the US, it seems they are not too interested in out market. And maybe they don't need to.

But thanks to the Internet, in 2009 I bought the aluminum Centaur group from Ribble for $525 delivered to my door. I had DA 7700 up to that point (sold it used on ebay for $650, I made a "profit"). Some customers like me are willing to take a shot without the test ride. Risky. Sure. But that Centaur shifts as well as the DA, doesn't need tuning as often, doesn't have fugly ginormous hoods, and probably has a better resale value. My gamble payed off.
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Old 11-27-11, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by iab

In product development there is a short view and a long view. Short view is about cutting costs and holding large marketshare with low price but low margin. ... Once costs can no longer go down, margin becomes even thinner. It's a tough spot for the long term. Long view is is to generate revenue by innovation. ...

The problem with Campagnolo is that the bicycle industry is so mature, there maybe isn't much room for innovation going forward. They were also hit a bit by SRAM taking a bit of their innovation crown. But my crystal ball sucks as I have yet to hit the lotto. There may be a great deal of innovation remaining and if there is, I'd bet on Campagnolo over Shimano in the long run unless Shimano really changes their tune.
"Decent Content" is a term I was recently exposed to. Not the best that can be done, but good enough. Look how long it took Shimano to clean up the cable routing of their brake/shift levers.

There is plenty of innovation to come in my view, the electronic gear is the beginning of what could come. An automatic transmission based on your effective output from load sensors in the drivetrain. As long as the UCI minimum weight requirement stays, the hard parts can get lighter and there is more allowance for batteries and electronics. Campagnolo should work on an iphone app that integrates with their stuff.

Campagnolo did disc brakes decades ago, hopefully with the admission of discs in cyclocross Campagnolo will jump on that and create a disc brake system.
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Old 11-27-11, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by toytech
You do know the whole unintended acceleration thing never really occurred, right? The media took off with it and had all the facts wrong.
Did the same with Audi 20 years ago.

Doesn't matter though. Perception is reality in business. Granted it was a fluff piece in Bicycle, but it will further the idea that Campagnolo is the leader in innovation.
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Old 11-27-11, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by gomango
The only area that Campy misses the mark for me is in off-road components, but they seen to be making strides.

https://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/groupset/catid_16.jsp
I've debated taking that leap.


I've got an 8spd and a 10spd index gear.
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Old 11-27-11, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage
There is plenty of innovation to come in my view, the electronic gear is the beginning of what could come.
I can't help but agree! I think that electronic shifting is one of the most important developments in cycling in years, although some will surely disagree with me. The ability to shift from multiple hand positions (eg the sprinter or climber switches) is an advancement nearly as important as the switch from DT shifters to brifters. Now the race crowd can shift from wherever their hands might be, shaving off valuable seconds. Sure, this is mostly of importance to racers at the moment, but the trickle down will benefit the average rider in a few years. I hope to see Campy release some remote shifting switches soon.
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Old 11-27-11, 06:07 PM
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meh, campy lost me at the electro revolution. I think. Maybe if I get a bike with it I'll be a convert. But for now, my entire stable stays bowden-operated campy. Call me the 1%, I don't mind.
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Old 11-27-11, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by champion city
I hope to see Campy release some remote shifting switches soon.
one test report i read said the new thumb lever made shifting from the drops much better. they went as far to say a sprint shifter wasnt necessary. regardless i will expect that we will see options that mimic what shimano has available. keep in mind we will probably see the tri/tt shifters first.
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Old 11-27-11, 06:54 PM
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It was a great article and spoke very well to the costs of outsourcing and the losses a company might face due to the theft of intellectual property and of diminishing a brand that, for it's entire history, has represented the very best with relatively few failures.

I love these...

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Old 11-27-11, 07:03 PM
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i am tempted to replace a perfectly good set of tektro cr720s every time i see those...

have you tried them sixty fiver?
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Old 11-27-11, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by thirdgenbird
i am tempted to replace a perfectly good set of tektro cr720s every time i see those...

have you tried them sixty fiver?
Not yet... but as a lifelong fan of cantis will look forward to test driving them and if they pass muster would look at using these on new touring builds.
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Old 11-27-11, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Italuminium
meh, campy lost me at the electro revolution.
Personally I don't intend to go electronic for a few years, or even to 11-speed for that matter, but the prospects of electronic shifting interest me greatly. and I did hear that the new thumb button makes for easier shifting from the drops. I've also switched to a compact drop recently, and have found that shifting in the drops is much easier now. If only there were a compact bar in a 26.0 clamp size!

Love those cross cantis too.
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Old 11-27-11, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
Not yet... but as a lifelong fan of cantis will look forward to test driving them and if they pass muster would look at using these on new touring builds.
i have yet to see a review or even a picture of them mounted to a bike. if you get the chance to test ride them try and remember to make a thread.
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Old 11-27-11, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by champion city
If only there were a compact bar in a 26.0 clamp size!
i was thinking someone on the road forums found one

edit: i think it may have been ravenmore

Last edited by thirdgenbird; 11-27-11 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 11-27-11, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
It was a great article and spoke very well to the costs of outsourcing and the losses a company might face due to the theft of intellectual property and of diminishing a brand that, for it's entire history, has represented the very best with relatively few failures.

I love these...

I've never seen those before, but it's love at first site!
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Old 11-27-11, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake
I've never seen those before, but it's love at first site!
They'd look pretty good on a 20 inch folding touring bike...
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Old 11-28-11, 05:39 PM
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If only there were a compact bar in a 26.0 clamp size!
Like this? I've got one on my Bianchi Trofeo, and it works well. The only problem I've had with it is that using the two-bolt Bontrager stem, it slips under hard braking. My solution is replacing the stem with one that uses four bolts. Alternately, something like Tacx carbon assembly paste might help.

BTW, that bar is wearing Campy eight speed Ergos, just to bring this back on topic.
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Old 11-28-11, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by champion city
I can't help but agree! I think that electronic shifting is one of the most important developments in cycling in years, although some will surely disagree with me. The ability to shift from multiple hand positions (eg the sprinter or climber switches) is an advancement nearly as important as the switch from DT shifters to brifters. Now the race crowd can shift from wherever their hands might be, shaving off valuable seconds. Sure, this is mostly of importance to racers at the moment, but the trickle down will benefit the average rider in a few years. I hope to see Campy release some remote shifting switches soon.
That would be neat, but I like just having their elegant stuff. A re-issue in 10sp of components that mimic some of the earlier stuff would be pretty cool, like a skeleton Delta, or maybe re-issues that look like the old stuff but use lighter alloys. I still look at new Campy stuff and go "oooh, cool."
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Old 11-28-11, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes
That would be neat, but I like just having their elegant stuff. A re-issue in 10sp of components that mimic some of the earlier stuff would be pretty cool, like a skeleton Delta, or maybe re-issues that look like the old stuff but use lighter alloys. I still look at new Campy stuff and go "oooh, cool."
i attempted to create 1980s elegance and 2000s performance with my tommasini.
monoplanar calipers with modern cartridge pads
c-record crank arms with 10spd rings and a sealed bb
record titanium ergo levers w/ 10spd record internals
silver record 10spd record freehub w/ oversize axle
traditional chorus/athena low flange front hub


when veloce and centaur move to 11spd i think it would be cool if one of the alloy groups was given a "throwback" look. i dont see there being enough room in the market for 11spd veloce/centaur/athena anyway. they are already very close. (i dont see it happening though)

Last edited by thirdgenbird; 11-28-11 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 11-28-11, 06:49 PM
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Wow, can 10 speed internals be fitted to 8 speed levers??

BTW, I do have a compact (non cable grooved) bar on my concorde in building, it's an old modolo speedy.
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Old 11-28-11, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Italuminium
Wow, can 10 speed internals be fitted to 8 speed levers??

BTW, I do have a compact (non cable grooved) bar on my concorde in building, it's an old modolo speedy.
it requires some modification but yes:


the biggest downfall of the modification is that it requires sacrificing both an 8spd and a 10spd lever and some of the wearable parts are 8spd that are no longer available. it is a costly mod but it can be done.

my example:
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Old 11-28-11, 07:23 PM
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if you look closely you will notice that Jan even used the carbon fiber brake blade in his conversion. this requires even further modification.

looking back on things it would have been much more economical to buy a set of silver chorus/daytona 10spd levers or even NOS 2010 centaur ultra shift levers from the UK. i mainly did it because i was always jealous of Jan's levers. i believe marco rode a set for a short time as well.
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Old 11-28-11, 08:06 PM
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I just got this group for a certain Gazelle Pro line Frame I got from Jan...( never did D/L a picture of it). I'm also building wheels using Campy Record 10 Speed hubs (alloy) Mavic Open Pro rims in silver, DT comp spokes. Rims are on B/O they Should be here by Wednesday.


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