The only payment methon that Ebay requires is PAYPAL, now that's a monopoly. By squeezing out or buying out the competition makes for flexing their monopolistic muscles! Write to your representatives, email your representatives, vote out your representatives, buy stock in Ebay(one share has voting rights) go to their stock holders meeting and express your concern that they ripping off the consumer and seller!

I have dealt with Ebays customer service as both a buyer and seller. While polite and willing to answer questions they where unwilling or unable to address any issues I had. All they where good for was parroting official policy in fake American accents.

That's beyond eBay and part of our beauracratic, corporate culture. The statement "that's our policy" is somehow supposed to indicate to me that I'm bound by their internal policies. I usually respond well...my policy is XXX. Companies are typically outsourcing their customer service to third parties, or are totally insulated from their service departments. You ask for a supervisor and you get a guy making $10/hr instead of $8/hr who parrots a script he was given. To actually get anywhere you have to start writing letters to corporate VPs and get out of the phone service que, but that takes so much time and effort that unless the issue is a LOT of money, it's just not worth it; and that's their whole game...wear you down. If they have to pay out an extra bit of money now and then, well there were 10 people who gave up that justified it. Every now and again someone sues them and they settle quickly...but the numbers say that's cheaper, long term, then having actual customer service.

Even worse are quasi-Government agencies. Typically a direct Govt. Agency has some oversite at some level...you can call your council people and reps to leverage them. The quasi-Govt. agencies are the worst of all worlds...corporate indifference without any oversite...AND they're typically harder to sue.

Is there anything stopping you from requesting that the buyer send payment directly to your email without going through ebay? Wouldn't that bypass the ebay sales requirements?

Back in 2007 when I got ripped off to the tune of $500 by a seller (I bought a camera from a guy that never sent it because the camera didn't exist), even though I had a phone number to eBay, I could NOT get anyone on the phone at all. I sent numerous messages and only got canned responses by the eBay reps. I got to the point where I began starting my messages with, "PLEASE READ THIS MESSAGE CAREFULLY BEFORE RESPONDING.", which, BTW made no difference as I still got crap responses from them. I sent at least 2 letters to them via snail mail - certified, return receipt requested - that were received but never responded to. Needless to say I was very frustrated with the whole ordeal but, fortunately, there were several other peoople that got ripped off by this guy and we formed a "virtual posse" and eventually found out where the guy lived (his address information was incorrect). We contacted the authorities where he lived who arrested the guy and charged the guy with grand theft. All this with NO HELP FROM EBAY WHATSOEVER!! I understand things have changed a bit since then, but the image I still have of them is that they don't care about customer service.

There is a sort of happy ending to this story. Because I used a credit card to pay for the "camera", they did a chargeback and I didn't pay a thing. Then, the guy who ripped me off finally felt some fear-of-the-state-induced remorse and gave me back an additional $500. I had no problem taking the money from the guy as some sort of recompense for his evil act.

I knew I should never have sent you that $500!

Ah, so you've moved from GA to PA since then, eh? ;)

I have to tell you that was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life and I'm a pretty low-key and laid back kinda guy. I didn't use eBay for a long time after that, and when I finally did, it was with great caution. Fortunately, since that experience I have had no further problems but that one nearly had me swear off eBay forever, I was so p|553d off about the matter.

Once I changed the listing to read "I will accept electronic payments" it went through fine. The winning bidder paid in full but I still haven't been invoiced by ebay.

**EDIT**

They charged me $101.00 for the auction that ended at $4200.

I don't use ebay often enough to navigate the options properly and throwing down new rules mid-process was a bit lame, but overall I am very satisfied with their service. I am sure another auction will pop up and give them a run at some point.

It would be cool if there was a bike only auction site.

+1.

So you ended 'up' $500 on the deal, kept that money, and you're still *****ing about it? Sheesh.

I don't particularly like eBay. If you don't like eBay, why don't you stop selling there? I did. No one is holding a gun to your head and requiring you to continue listing your items on eBay, right? The simple fact is that sellers net more money there than they would elsewhere, i.e. more than enough to cover all of the silly fees and STILL net more money for an item. Otherwise, why bother? Yes, eBay is evil. I agree. Yes, eBay only cares about making ever-more money for eBay, and absolutely nothing else. Get over it. It ain't ever gonna change!

And to all of you that seem to think that the sellers generate eBay's income, think again. The buyers pay for EVERYTHING. No buyer, no funds coming into the system. Period.
Fwiw, that is "oversight" not "oversite."

Sorry, but I've gotta say it: that's naive.

How can anyone scam Paypal? Ebay maybe, but Paypal? In what capacity? It was once their own policy to allow transfers of money as gifts free of charge; now they charge .50 for the privilege. I'd say that's a perfect indicator that Paypal is looking for more ways to make more money on a service that seems less and less a service while more and more a moneymaker.

Understand I have no problem with a business making money - but when the business declines in customer service while asking for more money, I get a little hot under the collar.

And before a couple of members in this thread get froggy, I've made my decision to curtail selling until I see some positive changes. Additionally, I will abide by sellers' rules regarding wait periods because I understand the issues they are raising.

My .02

DD

That post didn't actually have much to do with eBay, but I'll assume you had a logical reason for responding the way you did and will respond as though it was made to one of the posts that was about eBay.

You see this incredibly silly and generic answer anytime someone discusses anything. It's really quite ignorant actually, but I guess it beats coming up with an argument, or having to think critically.

"I don't like Government policy xxx"
"Why don't you leave the country?"

Obviously people use eBay and tolerate it because that's where the money is and they have the wider audience, just as people used monopolistic railroads because that's what went cross country. I explicitly stated I have no problem with eBay's fees, or even policies at an individual level. My issue is with their integration with Craigslist and Paypal, which extend a monopoly that make it more difficult to use other sources and give them a very anti-consumer, heavy handed approach to their customers. Policies like this are why we have anti-trust laws. Whether and when we use them is usually political, but I'm making an argument that we SHOULD use these rules for ebay/paypal/Craigslist. If you want to counter that with an argument on why we shouldn't, fine...but saying it ain't gonna change and just live with it isn't an argument, it's just lazy and annoying. It's actually just contrarian and vapid. In fact I do avoid eBay as a seller and actively avoid Paypal, it doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on anti-trust legislation and how it should apply...or on fraudulent and misleading claims made by Paypal regarding FDIC insurance.

As for buyers paying for everything - no. That only works if shipping and fees are pass through expenses, and the reality is that the buyer and the market will dictate the final price, not the costs. The costs might dictate a needed price, but they won't dictate what buyers are willing to pay. Bottom line is no items for sale, no eBay fees. Period. Both are components to the system and eBay is just a successful market.

Thank you for correcting grammar/spelling on a web forum...I'm sure you can find an error in any post I make. I suppose a correction like that also saves time on actually having to think about a response. What's really amazing is that you offer proofreading for free...the person who does it in our office makes about $12/hr. You're short changing yourself.

But we do have a choice as to where to sell our stuff. We also have a choice as to whether or not we sell our stuff. It's a lot easier making these choices than switching countries.

Also, a lot of people who hate facts of life that government brings us wouldn't be happy if they left this country (the USA). Taxes are higher elsewhere.

And we don't really have much choice on payment arrangements within eBay. We don't have unified CL search engines because of eBay. As one entity, I agree...eBay is just one of many options. The problem is the conglomerate. Someone could chose not to use a railroad...but they were still hit with anti-trust regulation. There are other options in the marketplace than Microsoft...but they still got nailed with anti-trust law suits for bundling. Arguing that eBay/Paypal/CL isn't anti-consumer, or monopolistic is fine. I respect that. Arguing it won't change, just don't use it is silly.

I think the implications behind the complaints is that people feel that ebay has no competition. But that just isn't true. No one is as big, and no one has as big an audience, but that's exactly why they command the highest fees. You can pay less, and you get less. I think they offer a better deal than the local newspaper did before we sold stuff on the intarwebs.

That may be an argument others made, but it's not the argument I made. My argument is that the alignment with paypal is monopolistic and anti-consumer. You are welcome to disagree. Newspapers don't offer buyers a refund and hold your cash in the only payment service they accept while misleading about FDIC insurance and not paying interest...which is why eBay/Paypal has had several class action suits and newspaper classifieds haven't.

What you have is eBay changing their policies to benefit their Amazon'esque sellers (totally fine, an internal decision) and setting up policies that don't work for people selling used bike parts because of their model change. The problem comes in when they limit the bike part guy's good options by restricting CL searches so as not to compete with eBay. The payment monopoly within their service is, to me, a clear example of monopolistic integration.

Personally...I've cut back on bike sales and flipping for several reasons, some of which do include eBay's policy changes. I try to sell on Serotta or to people I know on BF and consider eBay a last option. I find it very difficult to sell an expensive item knowing that I have to wait as much as 6 weeks (it happened) for my funds...and relying on the buyer's good will and fairness in the transaction. For cheap, small items it isn't a big deal because you can just have them ship it back and, at worst, you''re out shipping for a few bucks. With bikes, and the higher shipping costs, getting caught on shipping charges is much more scary...and relying on the buyer to resend it properly, where you don't end up in a damage dispute, is also scary.

My b|tch|ng had more to do with the fact that eBay didn't lift a finger to do anything about the matter, this despite numerous messages, several phone calls and at least certified snail mail letters. The only way any justice was done was by the "virtual posse" we formed to hunt the b@stard down. Believe me, I was happy about the money... :D

I'll take a little less money for an item here on the Forum than sell on Ebay anymore. I mean, it's really not about every last dime that can be squeezed from a sale, at least not for me.

So I lose a worldwide audience; oh well. There's more to life, I think. This stuff will always sell one way or another, no matter what mechanism is used.

I just had my first successful sale on the For Sale or Trade thread and am content with the money involved for the goods that are going out. I also got to have a great conversation with a fellow member who gave me interesting details on what his plans are, and I got to give him some history. That right there was worth the difference in what I could get on Ebay vice BF. Best $12.00 I ever spent :)

DD

If you want to make alot of money sell your goods on ebay.

If you want to make a little money sell your goods elsewhere.

Its really that simple.

I'll stand by what I said. Best of luck to you in your future business endeavors! Have a blessed day!

Yup. The rest is all just useless be-otching, and a waste of energy.

I hear you, but remember the official rules:

Rule #1: eBay only cares about eBay.

Rule #2: There is NOOO rule #2 (said in his best Monty Pythoner accent).

Cheers,

Correct. It's a pretty simple financial calculation, really. It's called the Cost of Doing Business. Certain people want to have it both ways. Life just doesn't work like that, guys, sorry....

You've got a worldwide audience right here DD! I'd be pleased to buy an item I needed from you or from any other C&V members, in fact have done so in the past for odd bits & pieces and been very pleased with the result. When doing so I always PM to ascertain the shipping/delivery costs from seller's country to the UK, plus packing costs & arrangements and how to make the total payment. This is agreed between us in a PM or two before I commit - and I've never been disappointed. It's a more personal transaction than clicking on e-bay and relies to some extent on trust but in my experience that's pretty much a given.

^ True, we have worldwide audience here, but it's just that little bit smaller than the Ebay audience. Not that it bothers me - in fact, I'd rather sell to the passionate people here, even if I take a little less green away from the transaction. I've taken a lot more away from the experiences I've had here than any on Ebay, so that's just one plus for my yearly $12 investment :)

All my buying/selling/trading experiences here have been super. Getting something to or from someone who wants it or has it should be as easy as we have it on the Forum. Since bike stuff is pretty much all I ever sold on Ebay, the withdrawal symptoms should be nonexistent. I hope :)

DD

I don't have access to the country stats of BikeForums, but I know that when I check the stats for VeloBase, I regularly have hits from a dozen different countries from around the world. I would expect nothing less from this forum (and likely more). eBay will be the gorilla in the room till we, as buyers and sellers, decide to find better solutions.

Ebay has little/no competition for what I sell there. I typically sell thrift store and garage sale finds on ebay, none of it bicycle related.

Auctions I have closing tonight with bids:

Child's Tony Lama Boots
Adult Justin Boots
Bolivian Alpaca Sweater
Vintage Cookbook
Irish Merino Wool Sweater
Ski Sweater
Niche Magazines

Before ebay, there was no one stop outlet for such items, where you could get close to market value. I will gladly continue to pay ebay their fees to sell this kind of stuff. Of course, I wish their fees were lower, and their service was more seller friendly.

I typically sell complete bikes locally. I have a backlog of components and higher end framesets that will likely eventually go to ebay when I get around to it....

It's true that there's little or no competition that is like ebay. That's what makes their high fees worth it. If they're not singular, they are close to it. Their service is worth what they get or what you pay for it.

But there are alternatives. You can sell by newspaper, word of mouth, craigslist, other classified ads, OR you could choose not to sell it at all. That is a choice, and it completely avoids the fees.

You can also give your stuff away. That's how I get a lot of my bikes. People with no time, such as when they're moving house or just cleaning up, just want the bikes out of the way. And because people send so much good will this way, I give a lot of them away.

AGAIN...there were options other than Microsoft, and people could just say "Don't like it? Don't use it!" That didn't stop the application of anti-trust legislation for software bundling. You could go cross country by donkey, walk or not go at all...that didn't stop anti-trust regulation with railroads. etc. These arguments are incredibly simplistic and ignore actual history. The use of Paypal and exclusion of other payment services is a perfect analogy with what happened to Microsoft for software bundling. Why do you think they started accepting other online payment services, but restricted them to ones that mirror Paypal? It's price fixing. In fact, eBay's actions are more extreme and offensive since other programs work on Microsoft. AGAIN...the problem isn't eBay having a large share of the online market - there are plenty of competitors. The problem is their policies and ownership of CL and Paypal, which are anti-consumer and exclusionary to other services.

In the real world anti-trust legislation has been used for these behaviors in the past; in fact for around 100 years. There are more options than "just don't use it". If you want to make an argument on how this is different from other anti-trust regulation, great. We can have an intelligent discussion.