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Odd Old Paramount ... 2nd chance of buying it but need more information

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Odd Old Paramount ... 2nd chance of buying it but need more information

Old 12-15-11, 09:57 PM
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joe englert
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Odd Old Paramount ... 2nd chance of buying it but need more information

Here are some better pics of the paramount i posted several months ago with the odd internal cableing and repaint???? Didnt get a real answer on this yet because of the so so pics but with these new pics I hope someone can tell me if this is original or not. I can pick it up for 700.00 but waiting for the go ahead from the experts out there on the forums. The guy took it off the market for a while when i was hesitant about buying it before but now wants to sell for xmas money. Thanks much for any help on this curiosity. ps sorry for that extra pic of another bike!!!!
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Old 12-15-11, 10:18 PM
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Joe, it's only money. Are you interested in the bike, or in the investment? If you like the bike, and want it to enjoy, and the price is not a hardship - go for it. If it's an investment - no offense, but there's no guarantee anyone here can give you.
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Old 12-15-11, 10:22 PM
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I can't add anything to what i told you in that PM, except that in
my opinion it's a very nicely done professional restoration of the
frame in a style befitting the time it was restored, rather than
when it was manufactured and first sold.

I'm think possibly the seller can put you in contact with the guy
he bought it from......who is possibly your best actual source with
regard to restoration/originality.

If it were my size, for 700 bucks I'd buy it and ride the hell out of it.
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Old 12-15-11, 10:27 PM
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Joe, looks good, appears too big for you, price is reasonable.
I don't like the wheels, but that is not a killer.
I really do like the Pista forks. I bet if you paid Waterford for the build info they would advise it was ordered that way. I have seen others, usually tied to John's in Pasadena.
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Old 12-15-11, 10:36 PM
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Yes, im not sure of the size..the guy lives a bit far away. I like it but,,just with my other bikes 14 in all....when and if i sell it, i dont want to lose money on it....like i did with the faux 70s cinelli. John's .... i think thats the same place that my ex confente came from
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Old 12-15-11, 10:36 PM
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Fork looks OK in the pictures but check with a keen eye for signs of front end damage. The markings on the fork leg look exactly like my voyageur which took a direct front end vehicular impact.
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Old 12-15-11, 10:46 PM
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Did they ever have internal routing that came out on the bottom of the top tube, though? Looks very odd.
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Old 12-15-11, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
Did they ever have internal routing that came out on the bottom of the top tube, though? Looks very odd.
+1 Something odd on that rear brake cable routing. The internal routing, the really odd exit point, then going between the two stays? Huh? I would look for one of the Paramount experts to wade in.
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Old 12-15-11, 11:01 PM
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If that bike doesn't have braze-ons for the cable routing on the top tubes then, so far as I know, it's supposed to use clamp-on guides. Braze-ons came later. I think someone has semi-drewed that frame to enable interior routing.

Last edited by Paramount1973; 12-15-11 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 12-15-11, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Paramount1973 View Post
If that bike doesn't have braze-ons for the cable routing on the top tubes then, so far as I know, it's supposed to use clamp-on guides. Braze-ons came later. I think some-one has semi-drewed that frame to enable interior routing.
No. P12's have braze-ons.

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Old 12-15-11, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
No. P12's have braze-ons.

-Kurt
Thanks for the clarification, Kurt. I guess what I am saying is that the bike in question had no braze-ons and someone opened the top tube at either end to route the cable internally.
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Old 12-16-11, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Paramount1973 View Post
Thanks for the clarification, Kurt. I guess what I am saying is that the bike in question had no braze-ons and someone opened the top tube at either end to route the cable internally.
I'm almost certain someone did so many years ago - and had the bike repainted by a proper master at the craft; the kind you'd find back then - hence, the "original" look to it.

Nevertheless, that English double box lining is not correct for an early second-gen Paramount.

Take care,

-Kurt
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Old 12-16-11, 09:30 AM
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Can you get the seller to provide the serial number?
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Old 12-16-11, 10:09 AM
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after you flip it could you use the proceeds for basic photography lessons?
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Old 12-16-11, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by -holiday76 View Post
after you flip it could you use the proceeds for basic photography lessons?
lol
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Old 12-16-11, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Scooper View Post
Can you get the seller to provide the serial number?
Stan: I looked at this bike in person several months ago because the
seller told me it was a 23' or 23 1/2" frame (my size.....and it is not).

I like the seller, but am as far from it driving as Joe, so was not
particularly happy to have driven the two hours for no reason.
Thus, I only gave it a quick once over, as a curiosity more than
anything else.

The seller was told, IIRC, by the guy he got it from that it is a
1952 (or maybe some other early 50's year?), and I remember
looking at the frame number on the drop. Might have been
J52 or something like that. It was a very small number.

I'm pretty sure it's the oldest one I've personally had the chance
to buy, but I only buy stuff to ride myself, so it was not of interest
to me.

@ Joe......I hope you don't end up regretting hesitation on this,
Because again, IIRC, it should be in your size range as it was too
small for me.
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Old 12-16-11, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by -holiday76 View Post
after you flip it could you use the proceeds for basic photography lessons?
Oh snap!
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Old 12-16-11, 11:42 AM
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Joe, why all the fuss? It's obviously a good bike. If you are going to ride it, and you like it, buy the thing. If you just want it for what it's "worth," then leave it for someone who really wants to ride it.
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Old 12-16-11, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
Joe, why all the fuss? It's obviously a good bike. If you are going to ride it, and you like it, buy the thing. If you just want it for what it's "worth," then leave it for someone who really wants to ride it.
I would agree with this.
As an investment, bikes are a bad bet.

If it fits and you like it, and are going to ride it.
BUY IT!

If not, there will be better bikes down the road.

Good luck!
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Old 12-16-11, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by -holiday76 View Post
after you flip it could you use the proceeds for basic photography lessons?
is tha supposed to be an insult....ouch!! ps those arent my pics...those are the sellers pics.....mine arent that good
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Old 12-16-11, 03:05 PM
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Looks to me like the BB cable guide is installed backwards.
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Old 12-16-11, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
It's obviously a good bike.
Some mechanics may argue that point given the way the rear brake cable has to be run under the seatstay.

-Kurt
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Old 12-16-11, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Some mechanics may argue that point given the way the rear brake cable has to be run under the seatstay.
You think that will affect the ride somehow? How so?
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Old 12-16-11, 03:52 PM
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I know people have put the internal routing on the wrong side, but usually they figure it out in time not to use that top tube in a frame. On an existing bike with as much trouble it is, it's crazy that they did that. Ruins the whole effort for me. If you want a decent cable run, you'd have to get a different brake
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Old 12-16-11, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by joe englert View Post
is tha supposed to be an insult....ouch!! ps those arent my pics...those are the sellers pics.....mine arent that good
I know they aren't , but they could be! And I suppose it was an insult , but a good natured one. Well at least in my mind.
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