Campy on a Simplex dropout hanger?
 

I'm going to show my ignorance here. Despite searches, I can't find much info. Did anyone ever make an adapter to hang a Campagnolo rear derailleur on a Simplex non-threaded dropout? Without Drewing the dropout? Not possible? Not a good idea? Not worth the effort?

BTW, I'm not opposed to a bolt-on claw type hanger but note that the Campy top pivot bolt projects out the back of the hanger, thus interfering with the Simplex dropout hanger.

Good question, as I'm currently faced with this same dilemma.

FWIW, you can easily tap the non-threaded hole to 10x1 to accept a Campy RD, without appreciably widening the bore. This way it remains backward-compatible with Simplex RDs. However, I don't know whether the Campy RD will pivot properly since the Simplex dropout lacks the Campy pivot stop. I'll be following this thread to see what other advice people have...

There may be more options, but here are two of which I'm aware:

• modify (drew) the hanger to act as a Campagnolo type hanger
• use a Shimano Crane/LeTour RD (they were designed to work with several hanger styles including the stop-less Simplex)

I can help with the later if either of you has a need.

A friend of mine did exactly that - tap the threadless dropout - to run a Nuovo Record RD on a Gitane Tour de France. He did it circa 1974, and it was still going strong circa 2004 when he let a neighborhood kid have the bike. Of course, he also forced a Cinelli bar into a 3ttt stem (if you ask him how he did it, all he'll say is "It wasn't easy") so you be the judge of his wisdom.

:popcornsubscribing.

I also have a Crane RD in black that I'm not using.

It can be done, but it will destroy the collector value of the bike. Painting it has the same effect. You have to decide if that matters to you. It doesn't to me.

http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/48...600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/30...600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/43...600x600Q85.jpg

Ah, so you basically drewed the DO to create a Campy-compatible stop. And there's no reason this wouldn't still be backward-compatible with Simplex RDs.

This is a better idea. It bolts on without modification and it shifts better than vintage Campy.

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/38...600x600Q85.jpg

I think the Simplex derailleur will still work in that Southpaw, but the rear bolt with shoulder might be a little loose after the threads are cut. Trying to avoid doing any grinding if I can help it. Tinkering earlier, I noticed a claw might work aside from the fact that it moves the derailleur outboard a bit too far I think. On a fairly narrow range Nuovo Record derailleur there doesn't seem to be enough adjustment between the stops to use a claw hanger. Thanks BG, I was aware of the modification but shying away from the grinder. And thanks Colonel. Going to look at that Crane and see how it works. Does it have a custom stop clip built into it that rides on the circular outside diameter of the Simplex hanger?

Yeah. That was my first thought GB, thanks. But man, the LJ rears go for more than I can justify. I think. What model is that? 6600?

I think the way you've explained it is correct. Here are some pics. The Cranes shifted as well as any RD of the era and both short (28t max cog) and long cage (32-34t max cog) models were produced.

#1

http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...13217412280001

http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...13217412350001

#2

http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...13227845960001

http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...13227846210001

Here's a Crane mounted to a Huret dropout. Photo courtesy of nlerner.

#3

http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...13087497810001

http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...13087542320005

Here's a pic of a Crane I tried to install on a Huret dropout, but as you can see the tabbed washer on the backside of the mounting bolt was in a different orientation than the one above. I'm not sure why this is, but it obviously wouldn't work for my application.

#4

http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...13087493850001

http://gallery.me.com/justinhughes/1...13087492220001

Notice that the one Neal showed (#3) has the tabbed washer in a different orientation than the other three. I concluded by this that the tabbed washer was made to be placed in a different orientation depending on what type of hanger you mounted it to. However, when I removed the circlip to move #4, I didn't find this to be the case and I while I could replace the circlip, I couldn't do it in such a way as to get the same spring tension as the other Cranes I have. I think #4 is just a parts RD now.

That's a Super LJ 6000. I won it with a lowball bid and I got the matching front with it. Maybe people didn't like the Motobecane logo. I replaced the tag with a NOS plain Simplex one. I lost a lot of auctions before I won that one.

The Crane would be great. I think it works the same as a Simplex, with a tab that hooks on the front of the hanger. You would still have to have the hanger tapped (10mmX1?)

Correct, GB, you'd have to tap it and I belive the threading is, indeed (as Anton mentions above), 10M x 1.

The 660 is almost identical to the LJ and can often be had at very reasonable prices:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/bumby/build6.jpg

Is that the same as an SX610? I think that the geometry is about the same as the SLJ, but it's a bit heavier. The SLJ has an aluminum cage and pulley bolts. They're steel on the SX610. To be honest, I can't tell any difference in the way they shift. The finish on the SX610 is just as good, if not better. I had a bunch of them at one time, but now I just have one or two spares.

http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/31...600x600Q85.jpg

I'm starting to think my best option, to keep it French, is to see if I can knock down a 6000 or 610. Like GB, I always seem to get outbid on them and can't justify $125+ for an SLJ 5000. I'm still thinking there must be a way to build and adapter plate for a Nuovo Record, though, a'la the Crane above, but I suppose if it was easy someone would have done it already. In my sometimes too fertile brain I'm even looking at the possibility of turning a custom top pivot bolt that fits the NR, threaded on the back side to accept the Simplex shoulder bolt. I have the machines, but probably not the skill, and then there remains the pesky question of the stop tab.

I paid $22 for the last SX610 I won on eBay and it came with a nice SX810 GT long cage and an SJA 102 front. I don't think it was more than a year ago. The SX610 just needed pulleys, so I took them off of the SX810 that I have no use for. The SJA 102 is the front you need for an early PX10 because it has a housing stop.

You'll sometimes see NOS SX610 and SJA 102 derailer sets sold on eBay as Gipiemme Sprint.

http://inlinethumb04.webshots.com/48...600x600Q85.jpg

My PX-10 came with a Cyclone GT attached to it. Instead of threading the dropout, they filed down most of the threads of the hanger bolt and attached a nut on the backside. Pretty weird solution - I'm just glad they left the dropout intact.

I've got an SX-630 that will be replacing it the Suntour.

Sounds like a thoughtful solution - a Cyclone hanger bolt is a lot easier to replace than a Simplex drop out.

I have several different sized Suntour hanger bolts. I have seen some that slide all the way through the simplex drop, and are then nutted from the other side. I am not sure that I can put my hands on an example right away, but I will look about. I am not sure what was done about the stops.

In my experience, the Suntour bolts that came with hanger claws threaded all the way through, with a locknut behind the claw. The bolts on non-claw versions of their derailleurs did not extend all the way through the DO hanger.

I'm getting seriously in over my head now. Contemplating making a new bolt for the Nuovo Record, tapped and threaded in the rear to accept the Simplex M6 x .1 attachment bolt. But then, I'll have to modify the derailleur, file off the stop boss, and then make a custom stop plate with an ear that catches the outside of the hanger. I have the will. The skill is another matter.

I wish I had some pictures, or even a memory - but before I joined here and knew it couldn't be done - I installed a NR RD onto my Gitane TdF. Now the hanger had been threaded, but I don't recall any other modification, and I don't recall having any issues. I drilled the rear of the dropouts for adjustment screws and installed those as well. Obviously something else was going on - maybe the RD had been modded?

It will fit if you cut a big chunk out of the derailer, but then there would be nothing to keep it from over-rotating forward.