Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

í83 Trek 500 as Light Tourer?

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

í83 Trek 500 as Light Tourer?

Old 12-22-11, 11:00 PM
  #1  
rothenfield1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rothenfield1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montereyish
Posts: 2,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
í83 Trek 500 as Light Tourer?

I havenít started a new post on C&V in over a year, and really wasnít sure I was ready to, but I have a good friend that really wants me to go on a short bike trip, probably 2 nights, when he gets back from teaching in Asia. I havenít seen him in a couple of years, and am way out of shape; but he is a good friend and the idea of riding with him has gotten me motivated to try and build a bike for the job.

Iíve owned a couple of full-on touring bikes, but Iíve had a fascination about trying to build a lugged road bike capable of carrying about 20-25 lbs of rear pannier gear. Iíve already communicated with the seller of an 83 Trek 500 frameset, and have almost convinced myself that I could make it work. The differences in frame geometry spec are something that I am still trying to get a handle on. I know about the issues with panniers and heel clearance, head tube angle, fork angle, and am sure there are other issues, but in my mind, Iím thinking that this bike may work. The bike has a 43cm CS.

What are the issues that may make this a bad idea?
http://vintage-trek.com/TrekBrochure1983Part1.htm#page6
rothenfield1 is offline  
Old 12-22-11, 11:02 PM
  #2  
rothenfield1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rothenfield1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montereyish
Posts: 2,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I should add that I plan on using a 700 wheelset.
rothenfield1 is offline  
Old 12-22-11, 11:42 PM
  #3  
auchencrow
Senior Member
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Posts: 10,327
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
.....
What are the issues that may make this a bad idea?
http://vintage-trek.com/TrekBrochure1983Part1.htm#page6
It's too beautiful of a bike to take on an overnighter like that.
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline  
Old 12-22-11, 11:43 PM
  #4  
balindamood 
Wrench Savant
 
balindamood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: 61 Degrees North
Posts: 2,216

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It will work fine (and you can keep the 27-inch wheels too if you want).
__________________
"Where you come from is gone;
where you are headed weren't never there;
and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it."
balindamood is offline  
Old 12-22-11, 11:44 PM
  #5  
illwafer
)) <> ((
 
illwafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,412
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
you could ride anything for 2 days. you are waaay overthinking it. a bike like this would be fine.
illwafer is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 12:23 AM
  #6  
rothenfield1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rothenfield1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montereyish
Posts: 2,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by illwafer View Post
you could ride anything for 2 days. you are waaay overthinking it. a bike like this would be fine.
That’s the answer I was hoping to here, and why I wasn’t sure if I even wanted to make a post about it. But, before prying the dollars out of my pocket, I thought I’d better put it out there to the folks that I trust most. I still have questions about the appropriateness of the frame geometry and the build circling my mind, caliper brakes on a bike designed for 27” wheel using 700s, gearing, chainline, appropriate crankset, mounting of a rear rack on a bike without braze-ons doesn’t seem to be an issue, the extra weight on the rear does.

Last edited by rothenfield1; 12-23-11 at 12:30 AM.
rothenfield1 is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 12:42 AM
  #7  
Standard Issue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 243

Bikes: 89 Bianchi Campione d'Italia upgraded with 10 speed Ultegra/105, '92 Trek 1100 8 speed, bar end shifters

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You're looking for 43cm frame? That's too badbecause I'm selling a 60cm Univega Specialissima full-on touring bike. It's already got as rear rack mounted to braze-ons and proper cantilever brakes. long wheelbase leaves plenty of room for panniers and the 40 spoke 27" rear wheel was made to handle heavy loads. brown shelac'd cloth bar tape on Rando bars with bar-end shifters complete the look.
If this a just a two-day trip, though, I'm pretty sure just about anything in good repair would do the job. The stock brakes will probably reach far enough for 700c but The may not have enough power to stop a loaded bike. Mafac racers will give you the benefits of cantis without requiring braze-ons. I have a set of those, too.....
Standard Issue is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 01:40 AM
  #8  
rothenfield1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rothenfield1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montereyish
Posts: 2,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Standard Issue View Post
You're looking for 43cm frame? That's too badbecause I'm selling a 60cm Univega Specialissima full-on touring bike. It's already got as rear rack mounted to braze-ons and proper cantilever brakes. long wheelbase leaves plenty of room for panniers and the 40 spoke 27" rear wheel was made to handle heavy loads. brown shelac'd cloth bar tape on Rando bars with bar-end shifters complete the look.
If this a just a two-day trip, though, I'm pretty sure just about anything in good repair would do the job. The stock brakes will probably reach far enough for 700c but The may not have enough power to stop a loaded bike. Mafac racers will give you the benefits of cantis without requiring braze-ons. I have a set of those, too.....
Iíve been on the hunt lately for the right frame, and the Specialissima can across my radar and I was tempted, but Iím not about land yachts at the moment. It seems like that there are some great deals out there at the moment that I would have jumped on a year or so ago. There was a time that I was all about touring bikes. I was at the point that I was slowly buying parts to build a Soma Saga, but I had to come to the conclusion that I wasnít going to be able to go on a week or 2 long unsupported tour anytime soon. I canít afford the time off sadly. Although; my buddy in Asia has been enticing me with what he describes as an awesome bike tour through Thailand and Cambodia. Who knows, Iím crazy like that. Fantasies are nice to think about, but all I'm thinking to do is build a practical lugged bike.
rothenfield1 is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 03:17 AM
  #9  
Captain Blight
Senior Member
 
Captain Blight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473

Bikes: -1973 Motobecane Mirage -197? Velosolex L'Etoile -'71 Raleigh Super Course

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
Fantasies are nice to think about, but all I'm thinking to do is build a practical lugged bike.
And I'd say you're on the right track with the 500. What kind of shape is it in, overall? Does it have room for fenders?
Captain Blight is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 07:28 AM
  #10  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 14,203

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 805 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Roth, can you be more specific about your uncertainties relative to the 500? Have you found the geometry chart for that year? It should be in the first few pages of the brochure posted on Vintage Trek. You'll have to look at several of the 1983 entries to find it.

In a previous thread we said you could have heel clearance issues with big pans if you don't mount them pretty far back. And putting significant weight pretty far back can lead to shimmy. Those issues are true for this frame. But, many people have put pans on full-up racing bikes and gone out for a couple days' ride, so I'm sure it can be done.

Regarding brakes, I've found the brakes on vintage Treks (mainly Shimano 600s) to be questionable until you ensure that the cables are correctly installed and get salmon Kool-stops. Then I'd put them against anything, if you are prepared to squeeze the levers. I'm not a bruiser in any way, and I can get good strong stopping out of them. I've also found that with vintage treks, retrofitting to Mafac or any other CP in the rear can become a problem due to the way they designed their seatpost binder system and the seat lug split. You can arrange a hanger using the Surly device, but I'm not ready to file out the seat lug slot to get enough clearance.

Have you asked about this on the Touring forum? I'd think they'd be great on the issues of heel strike, panniers, and rack selection.

Just looked at the geo and tubing: I'd say the tubing is fine for a wide range of use. It's 501 CrMo, just a little less yield strength than 531, and the tube spec is for 0.6 mm wall thicknesses full triangle. My 531 Treks are 0.5 on the seat and top tubes and 0.7 on the down tube. British bikes with 531 are the same but for a 0.6 downtube. A 501 might have a more supple ride than my 610 and 620, due to the heavier downtube of the Trek 531 tubeset. 0.6 mm has been used for a huge range of bike types, so I think you're not at risk with the frame.

I'd only think about one other issue: fitting fenders with the original 27 inch wheels. My 610 had 27s when I got it new, and it had only about 7 mm clearance to the frame - NO room for fenders. In recent years I've been able to fender it with P35s, but only up to 700c x 28 mm. I tried it with 45 mm plastic Zefals and Pasela TGs in 700c x 32, and while it could be made to spin with no scraping, just a little flex or distortion leads to tire scraping. With such tight clearances it's likely that road debris could get in and wreak havoc. Jan Heine has written that he thinks you should have 10 mm clearance between the tire and fender, but 7 can be ok. Maybe you'd get that with 32s and thin metal fenders, but I haven't tried that.

A 650b conversion is interesting. 42 mm tires want 50 mm or better, 58 mm fenders for really good water protection. My 610 has only about 43 mm inner width between the fork blades, so it really doesn't have enough for any 42 mm tires unless they never go out of true. A conversion to 650b x 32 mm should be possible. The wheel radius goes down from about 350 with my Paselas to around 330 mm, making 45 mm fenders a lot easier. A bud here used long Weinmann CP stoppers on a setup like this: rim diameter decreases fro 622 to 559, for a brake reach increase of 31.5 mm.

So, either try it the way it is and find out what the real problems are, or convert to 700c x 28 and find out what the real problems are, or do a bunch of work to go to 650b x 32, and, well, then you've still got heel.

Or split the load between front low-riders and a big saddlebag, like a Carradice Nelson or Carradice Camper. Then you should be able to ride the bike pretty much as it is. Might want to consider a rear bag support ...

Last edited by Road Fan; 12-23-11 at 08:28 AM.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 07:42 AM
  #11  
wrk101
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 22,017

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 654 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 39 Times in 34 Posts
For the use you describe, its really hard to beat a vintage rigid frame MTB. Made to handle racks, fenders, good cantilever brakes, endless tire choices, and with the addition of trekking bars will give you multiple hand positions, and you are set. Trekking bars are often on sale at Nashbar, pretty cheap. And did I mention rigid frame MTBs are CHEAP?

Even when they have shifter problems, those are easily addressed with six or seven speed tourney trigger shifters, available with cables and housings for $13. I've put them on several MTBs, including keepers. Not only do I like them, but they adapt to trekking bars better than the twist grip crap (and are not integrated into the brake levers, giving you options there as well).

As far as any bike will work, I saw a guy touring the Blue Ridge Parkway recently with his wife. He was on some full zoot carbon racing bike, pulling a trailer. He was pulling the load for both of them. Worked fine. They were having a blast.
wrk101 is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 07:50 AM
  #12  
irwin7638
Senior Member
 
irwin7638's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kalamazoo, Mi.
Posts: 3,016

Bikes: Byron,Sam, The Hunq and that Old Guy

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've used my

'87 560 on numerous trips and come up smiling. There will be an issue of heel strike,but I have also used Blackburn lowriders with small bags on the front and found it very stable.

Marc
irwin7638 is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 08:03 AM
  #13  
gomango 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STP
Posts: 14,891
Mentioned: 64 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 667 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
For the use you describe, its really hard to beat a vintage rigid frame MTB. Made to handle racks, fenders, good cantilever brakes, endless tire choices, and with the addition of trekking bars will give you multiple hand positions, and you are set. Trekking bars are often on sale at Nashbar, pretty cheap. And did I mention rigid frame MTBs are CHEAP?

Even when they have shifter problems, those are easily addressed with six or seven speed tourney trigger shifters, available with cables and housings for $13. I've put them on several MTBs, including keepers. Not only do I like them, but they adapt to trekking bars better than the twist grip crap (and are not integrated into the brake levers, giving you options there as well).

As far as any bike will work, I saw a guy touring the Blue Ridge Parkway recently with his wife. He was on some full zoot carbon racing bike, pulling a trailer. He was pulling the load for both of them. Worked fine. They were having a blast.

Agreed.

It would be a fairly cool day in you know where before I'd plunk down major $$$ for a touring frame.

I love older mtbs with slack geos for their ride and carrying capacities.

We do a fair amount of this in northern Minnesota during the summer on the cheap.

Two tubesets I'd look for are:





As far as bars go, I usually reuse a couple of old favorites from Sakae and Nitto.

Inexpensive stems are a dime a dozen on CL here, and I usually convert shifters to bar ends from my parts bin.

Add your favorite saddle and a couple of CL Blackburns and you're good to go.

In fact, the last heavy tourer I built was totally thrown together from odds and ends from CL and swap meets.

I think I had $200 in the whole shebang, including panniers.

Works fine, just don't go too cheapo on tires.
__________________


Bikes and stuff

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36270004@N06/
gomango is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 10:12 PM
  #14  
rothenfield1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rothenfield1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montereyish
Posts: 2,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I started to write a long explanation about my concerns yesterday, then just read these multiple excellent responses that have been posted today. Thank you, thank you. Obviously, and someone stated, I was over thinking this. The frame that Iím looking at appears in to be in excellent condition, and I have had enough back-n-forth via email with the seller to conclude that he is a bike nerd and I wouldnít be surprised if he is a stealth member of this forum. He has the bike built as a 650B conversion at the moment. Again, Iím just buying the frameset, so I will be starting from scratch.
rothenfield1 is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 10:12 PM
  #15  
rothenfield1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rothenfield1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montereyish
Posts: 2,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Captain Blight View Post
And I'd say you're on the right track with the 500. What kind of shape is it in, overall? Does it have room for fenders?
It has 2 eyelets front and rear, so it would take fenders or racks, but not both.
rothenfield1 is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 10:23 PM
  #16  
rothenfield1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rothenfield1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montereyish
Posts: 2,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
Roth, can you be more specific about your uncertainties relative to the 500?
Wow! Youíve pretty much answered all of my questions in your post. Very thorough. Yu Da Man.

Iím not very knowledgeable about forks. I owned an í83 Trek 560 that I found the handling Ďsquirrellyí on. The 560 had a fork offset of 4.5. The 500ís is 5.5. Does this extra offset provide the bike a little more stability?

And, I havenít been on the Touring Forum in some time. Those people are even more fanatical then you people are about bikes.
rothenfield1 is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 10:24 PM
  #17  
rothenfield1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rothenfield1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montereyish
Posts: 2,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
For the use you describe, its really hard to beat a vintage rigid frame MTB. Made to handle racks, fenders, good cantilever brakes, endless tire choices, and with the addition of trekking bars will give you multiple hand positions, and you are set. Trekking bars are often on sale at Nashbar, pretty cheap. And did I mention rigid frame MTBs are CHEAP?

Even when they have shifter problems, those are easily addressed with six or seven speed tourney trigger shifters, available with cables and housings for $13. I've put them on several MTBs, including keepers. Not only do I like them, but they adapt to trekking bars better than the twist grip crap (and are not integrated into the brake levers, giving you options there as well).

As far as any bike will work, I saw a guy touring the Blue Ridge Parkway recently with his wife. He was on some full zoot carbon racing bike, pulling a trailer. He was pulling the load for both of them. Worked fine. They were having a blast.
I absolutely agree with you. I think that vintage MTBs are underappreciated, and I’m a fan as well. I’m going to buy this frame, but if it doesn’t work out for some reason, an MTB frame will be my fall-back option.
rothenfield1 is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 10:25 PM
  #18  
rothenfield1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rothenfield1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montereyish
Posts: 2,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by irwin7638 View Post
I've used my

'87 560 on numerous trips and come up smiling. There will be an issue of heel strike,but I have also used Blackburn lowriders with small bags on the front and found it very stable.

Marc
Very nicely done. I can only hope to build one like yours. Heel strike seems like one of those issues that you just have to take a chance on and see if you can make it work for you.
rothenfield1 is offline  
Old 12-23-11, 10:27 PM
  #19  
rothenfield1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
rothenfield1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montereyish
Posts: 2,329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Bars will be Nitto Noodle. Wheels will be 700c 36H Open Pros laced to Ultegra hubs and Vittoria Rando 28’s. It’s a wheelset that I’ve kept just for the type of bike I’ve wanted to build, and 9spd DA barcons. Yes, I’m sorry to disappoint, but it will be a bastard hybrid Mod. I'm contacting the seller.
rothenfield1 is offline  
Old 12-24-11, 10:10 AM
  #20  
thinktubes 
Fast+Bulbous
 
thinktubes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Across the street from Chicago
Posts: 4,479

Bikes: Battaglin Cromor, Ciocc Designer 84, Schwinn Superior 1981

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 322 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 11 Posts
Here's my 500 "on tour" in Wisconsin. Works great! I was able to mount and rack adn a triple crank with no problems.

IMO, Mid-80's Trek's are some of the most neutral handling bikes ever made. They seem very well suited to longer rides.

thinktubes is offline  
Old 12-24-11, 10:45 AM
  #21  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 14,203

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 805 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by rothenfield1 View Post
Wow! You’ve pretty much answered all of my questions in your post. Very thorough. Yu Da Man.

I’m not very knowledgeable about forks. I owned an ’83 Trek 560 that I found the handling ‘squirrelly’ on. The 560 had a fork offset of 4.5. The 500’s is 5.5. Does this extra offset provide the bike a little more stability?

And, I haven’t been on the Touring Forum in some time. Those people are even more fanatical then you people are about bikes.
I find it really hard to talk about stability. What the 5.5 does is to decrease trail. A framebuilder who builds racing bikes and a long time acquaintance insists that better stability comes with more trail, equivalent to less offset. Fans of the randonneuse style who use a front bag mounted to a front rack experience more stability with the load with lower trail. In my experience the higher trail designs are much less stable with a front load. How much improvement you get with less trail depends on the wheel diameter, tire width and even tire pressure, so it's hard to predict it.

If it affects a high-front load, 10# on a rack, it seems reasonable trail would affect low loads such as a pair of front low-riders. But I don't have any experience with this.

I had a Woodrup with less trail than a Trek with the 5.5 fork, and it was decent but not great at handling a front bag well. I want less trail than the 5.5 Trek. I have a 5.5 Trek but have not put on a front bag. I like the handling of a 5.5 Trek quite a bit for just riding around. I'd go for the 5.5 if I had a choice.

I'm pretty sure the 4.5 will just feel like more of an Italian racing bike. A few years ago I had my 610's fork modified to about 46 mm offset, giving it a trail of about 58 mm. It felt a lot like my Masi and Mondonico, at least in the steering. But it does not convert a Trek 610 into a mountain angel like the Mondonico or a flexy fast bike like the Masi.

I'd bet the flak jacket you bought for the Road Forum would work about as well for the Touring Forum.
Road Fan is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
mwilli04
Classic & Vintage
1
05-12-17 04:04 AM
morninj
Classic & Vintage
6
07-31-14 06:49 PM
datlas
Classic & Vintage
15
10-31-09 05:39 AM
FogVilleLad
Bicycle Mechanics
18
12-08-08 02:15 PM
OFNAJOE
Mountain Biking
11
04-25-07 06:09 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.