Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Despicable. Loathsome. . . . . . (Ambrosio 19 Elite rims)

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Despicable. Loathsome. . . . . . (Ambrosio 19 Elite rims)

Old 12-30-11, 11:05 PM
  #1  
auchencrow
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Posts: 10,327
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Despicable. Loathsome. . . . . . (Ambrosio 19 Elite rims)

Despicable. Loathsome.

That's what you have to say when you're mounting (or dismounting) 700c tires on Ambrosio 19 rims.

I've done this a few times before, and it's not pretty.

In fact, just this evening, I became so fed up with it (snapping two tire irons and destroying the bead on two tires) that I decided to spend some money on a substitute rim, and naturally, the first thing I wanted to know was the ERD.

Lo and behold, the Ambrosio 19 is listed on Spokecalc as a 27" rim !
- Not surprisingly: 700c tires mount as if it was a 27" rim.
- But an Ambrosio 19 is a 700c rim. -Isn't it?
- Velobase lists it as a 700c Rim - but then again, I would expect a 700c rim to have an ERD of about 612, not 620!

I have had two bikes with Ambrosio 19's, and BOTH came with 700c tires.

Wot the hey?
There is nothing on the rim itself saying one way or the other - 700c or 27".

Which is it?
27" or 700c?
Despicable or Loathsome?




__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline  
Old 12-30-11, 11:29 PM
  #2  
mazdaspeed
Senior Member
 
mazdaspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: WA state
Posts: 4,823
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Sorry if this is a stupid question but have you measured them and compared them to other rims?
mazdaspeed is offline  
Old 12-30-11, 11:32 PM
  #3  
auchencrow
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Posts: 10,327
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by mazdaspeed View Post
Sorry if this is a stupid question but have you measured them and compared them to other rims?
Well, they are 8mm larger than 700c Sun CR18s.
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline  
Old 12-30-11, 11:39 PM
  #4  
mazdaspeed
Senior Member
 
mazdaspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: WA state
Posts: 4,823
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by auchencrow View Post
Well, they are 8mm larger than 700c Sun CR18s.
You mean the diameter is 8mm more? if so that's a huge problem lol.
mazdaspeed is offline  
Old 12-30-11, 11:41 PM
  #5  
DirtyHarry714
Essentials Bike Works
 
DirtyHarry714's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca.
Posts: 444

Bikes: Early 80 Celste Bianchi,Medici Pro Strada,Super Mondia,Cannondale Track Conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've had the same problems with mine
DirtyHarry714 is offline  
Old 12-30-11, 11:44 PM
  #6  
DirtyHarry714
Essentials Bike Works
 
DirtyHarry714's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Huntington Beach, Ca.
Posts: 444

Bikes: Early 80 Celste Bianchi,Medici Pro Strada,Super Mondia,Cannondale Track Conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread......?highlight=
DirtyHarry714 is offline  
Old 12-30-11, 11:56 PM
  #7  
auchencrow
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Posts: 10,327
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by DirtyHarry714 View Post
Man, I am THERE right with you, Harry!

I am pretty sure now though that they are actually 27" rims, that were erroneously spec'd on bikes that were SUPPOSED to take 700c tires.
- Yeah, you can force them on with an aggressive tool (like a flat bladed screwdriver), but I think I'll just calculate what new spokes I need to build up a new wheel with some actual 700c Sun rims.
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline  
Old 12-30-11, 11:59 PM
  #8  
mazdaspeed
Senior Member
 
mazdaspeed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: WA state
Posts: 4,823
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I'm not sure if they're 27", if the diameter is 8mm more than a 700c rim that would mean the radius is 4mm more. I've converted 27" wheel bikes to 700c and I'm pretty sure the difference in brake reach was more than 4mm. Could be wrong though.
mazdaspeed is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 12:05 AM
  #9  
ThermionicScott 
7-speed cultist
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 20,010

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2769 Post(s)
Liked 680 Times in 474 Posts
Have you tried mounting a 27" tire on one? If the bead seats and holds the prescribed amount of air, I think that would be good evidence that you have 27" rims on your hands.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 12:18 AM
  #10  
auchencrow
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Posts: 10,327
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Have you tried mounting a 27" tire on one?
Based on your question, I just tried it and the 27' is too large. Thus, it is not a 27" rim after all ....
- But I am just as certain it is not a 700c either.
In fact, in this case, it's just more recyclable aluminum.
(I'm not going to destroy any more tires with them.)
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 12:23 AM
  #11  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 25,199

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 986 Post(s)
Liked 806 Times in 524 Posts
Originally Posted by auchencrow View Post
But I am just as certain it is not a 700c either.
In fact, in this case, it's just more recyclable aluminum.
Trust me, it's a 700C. I have a pair of these on my 1973 Raleigh Competition, of which I recently de-laced the front rim so I could swap the hub onto my '82 Superior (and re-build that rim at a later date - and I still haven't). Doing so reminded me just how difficult it is to remove - or install - the Specialized Mondo tires. Mind you, the Mondos would virtually slip on and off my set of FSA RD-80's.

Let me know when you're sick of busting tire levers. I'll be glad to put up with them. Contrary to popular belief, I do have a set of metal tire levers alongside my Pedros - just in case a pair of these Ambrosios find their way into my shop.

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 12:28 AM
  #12  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 18,723

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 258 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17940 Post(s)
Liked 1,624 Times in 1,189 Posts
Just out of curiosity, do you have (or have you used) one of these?



Because once you have done so, you will wonder why you did not
do so earlier..........they really only work well with installation....
but they work really well with installation on otherwise tight tire
and rim combinations.

Well worth the price of admission, no matter what the old farts
who install everything with hands and secret techniques tell you.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 12:34 AM
  #13  
auchencrow
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Posts: 10,327
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Trust me, it's a 700C. I have a pair of these on my 1973 Raleigh Competition, of which I recently de-laced the front rim so I could swap the hub onto my '82 Superior (and re-build that rim at a later date - and I still haven't). Doing so reminded me just how difficult it is to remove - or install - the Specialized Mondo tires. Mind you, the Mondos would virtually slip on and off my set of FSA RD-80's.

Let me know when you're sick of busting tire levers. I'll be glad to put up with them. Contrary to popular belief, I do have a set of metal tire levers alongside my Pedros - just in case a pair of these Ambrosios find their way into my shop.

-Kurt
pm SENT.
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 12:40 AM
  #14  
auchencrow
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
auchencrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Detroit
Posts: 10,327
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
Just out of curiosity, do you have (or have you used) one of these?



Because once you have done so, you will wonder why you did not
do so earlier..........they really only work well with installation....
but they work really well with installation on otherwise tight tire
and rim combinations.

Well worth the price of admission, no matter what the old farts
who install everything with hands and secret techniques tell you.
Hi 3alarmer - I appreciate the tip for tire installation, and I just may spring for one of those tools next time I visit REI, but I am afraid I'm falling squarely into that "old farts' category. Being able to remove a tire to fix a flat is just as important as installing one. My bike and I would be better off with something that is a little friendlier to my tires (not to mention my fingers).
__________________
- Auchen
auchencrow is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 01:43 AM
  #15  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 18,723

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 258 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17940 Post(s)
Liked 1,624 Times in 1,189 Posts
here's the deal as I have experienced it. The newer, tighter beads on a lot
of high pressure tires make them very..........tedious.....to mount on some rims
like your Ambrosios or Matrix rims from a while back (narrow/no channel in the center
of rim into which to drop the opposite bead end, etc.)

What I've discovered is that if you can get the ****ers on once, inflate them to high
pressure, and ride on them for a while, the beads stretch a little in use, thus they
are a little easier to dismount/remount when next comes the time for a flat repair.

So you can be as old a fart as you want, Auchen. But if you ain't tried it, don't
knock it..............
3alarmer is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 03:59 AM
  #16  
WNG
Spin Forest! Spin!
 
WNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Arrid Zone-a
Posts: 5,964

Bikes: I used to have many. And I Will again.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Ambrosios....BTDT, 27" and 700C, both are a b!tch. It was easy to be confused with perhaps you're mounting a 700C on a 27" rim. You can't imagine it being this difficult. But it is.
WNG is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 04:50 AM
  #17  
revchuck 
OMC
 
revchuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,919

Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 449 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by auchencrow View Post
Being able to remove a tire to fix a flat is just as important as installing one. My bike and I would be better off with something that is a little friendlier to my tires (not to mention my fingers).
If you're not locked in to using older rims, current Mavic rims are pretty nice when it comes to mounting tires. I've got a set of wheels with Open Pro rims and another wheel with an Open Sport rim, and tires slip on and off pretty easily - even wire bead Conti Grand Prix. New ones come with pretty ugly stickers, but with those stickers off, they look like the traditional rims they are.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck

Demain, on roule!
revchuck is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 05:31 AM
  #18  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 26,834

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1735 Post(s)
Liked 532 Times in 324 Posts
I used to have a pair of those rims. I got a flat on a group ride and was having some difficulty with it. one of the guys decided to help well.... you should have seen the looks of the passerbyers as he stood there fighting with that wheel. the tapestry of profanity he wove could still be floating over Lake Michagan for all I know
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 05:39 AM
  #19  
gomango 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STP
Posts: 15,075
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
here's the deal as I have experienced it. The newer, tighter beads on a lot
of high pressure tires make them very..........tedious.....to mount on some rims
like your Ambrosios or Matrix rims from a while back (narrow/no channel in the center
of rim into which to drop the opposite bead end, etc.)

What I've discovered is that if you can get the ****ers on once, inflate them to high
pressure, and ride on them for a while, the beads stretch a little in use, thus they
are a little easier to dismount/remount when next comes the time for a flat repair.

So you can be as old a fart as you want, Auchen. But if you ain't tried it, don't
knock it..............
Agreed.

I have Matrix rims on a very nice 1977 Colnago Super.

Thanks again Bibliobob!

These Matrix rims are foul creatures at best, and will be swapped out after I have figured out what the next step is for the wheels.

Until then, Crank Brothers tire levers are my personal choice for tough rims.

OFG recommended them to me and it is the only tire tool I carry at this point.

3alarmer, are the pictured levers Crank Brothers or another brand?
__________________


Bikes and stuff

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36270004@N06/
gomango is online now  
Old 12-31-11, 07:47 AM
  #20  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 18,723

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 258 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17940 Post(s)
Liked 1,624 Times in 1,189 Posts
Originally Posted by gomango View Post

3alarmer, are the pictured levers Crank Brothers or another brand?
https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tire.../dp/B001AYML7K


..............................Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack
3alarmer is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 07:53 AM
  #21  
gomango 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STP
Posts: 15,075
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 760 Post(s)
Liked 107 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
https://www.amazon.com/Kool-Stop-Tire.../dp/B001AYML7K


..............................Kool Stop Tire Bead Jack
Cool.

Thanks!

A little like the Crank model with an extra arm.

I'll try them.
__________________


Bikes and stuff

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36270004@N06/
gomango is online now  
Old 12-31-11, 09:38 AM
  #22  
Road Fan
Senior Member
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 14,830

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1049 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 100 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
here's the deal as I have experienced it. The newer, tighter beads on a lot
of high pressure tires make them very..........tedious.....to mount on some rims
like your Ambrosios or Matrix rims from a while back (narrow/no channel in the center
of rim into which to drop the opposite bead end, etc.)

What I've discovered is that if you can get the ****ers on once, inflate them to high
pressure, and ride on them for a while, the beads stretch a little in use, thus they
are a little easier to dismount/remount when next comes the time for a flat repair.

So you can be as old a fart as you want, Auchen. But if you ain't tried it, don't
knock it..............
Interesting, I've sometimes put talc on the inner surface of the tire to get it to slide over easer - worked on my Pasela TG 32s on Diagonale 700c rims. But I'd have concluded this is a 27 inch rim.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 10:15 AM
  #23  
Seasnarf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a set of these rims with Vittoria georgia "22" (22-622) tires on them. It is little bit scary how easily the tires mount or dismount.They actually seem too loose but have never had a problem even at full pressure. Does anyone know of a comparable tire that is still available ?
Seasnarf is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 11:13 AM
  #24  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 19,828
Mentioned: 514 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3294 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 710 Times in 547 Posts
These rims, like several others, were manufactured in both 27" and 700C versions (and even a 24" version). The OP needs to measure the brake radius or outer diameter of the rim. These are 311mm and 634mm respectively for a 700C rim, while a 27" rim is 315mm and 642 mm respectively. These are nominal dimensions and actual measurements may vary slightly. Due to manufacturing tolerances it can be also be difficult to get tires to fit a rim, when they are at the oppsite ends of the tolerance limits.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 12-31-11, 03:55 PM
  #25  
Captain Blight
Senior Member
 
Captain Blight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473

Bikes: -1973 Motobecane Mirage -197? Velosolex L'Etoile -'71 Raleigh Super Course

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It is a great tragedy that curling up in the foetal position, sucking your thumb and weeping copiously won't help mount a tire on an Ambrosio. I always have great hopes that it will, but it never does.
Captain Blight is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.