This is a classic?!
01-01-12, 12:47 AM
#27
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Yes this is correct for almost anything classic refers to model and condition when it comes to collectors value while vintage refers to age. Something could be classic and colectable and be only a few years old. While there are a lot of vintage things that may never become classic.
01-01-12, 01:05 AM
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It's still a bit too new to be called a classic IMO, specially as it has "modern" specs mixed into it. Maybe it should be called "Neo-classic" instead. A modern interpretation of a "classic" bike?
Let it "cook" another dozen years or so and it's "classic" crendentials might not be challenged then.
Chombi.
Let it "cook" another dozen years or so and it's "classic" crendentials might not be challenged then.
Chombi.
01-01-12, 01:07 AM
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Yes this is correct for almost anything classic refers to model and condition when it comes to collectors value while vintage refers to age. Something could be classic and colectable and be only a few years old. While there are a lot of vintage things that may never become classic.
01-01-12, 06:35 AM
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Like a few of my bikes, from 10+ years ago, I'm "aging" them.
01-01-12, 04:33 PM
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Take good care of that bike, it's awesome!!
01-01-12, 06:41 PM
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appear "classic." That beng said, your bike's DT is noticeable thicker than the TT and ST, which bespeaks
it being a "later vintage" classic...
01-01-12, 07:06 PM
#33
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I am not sure where some people draw the line but I see lots of CL postings for "classic" or "vntage" Bianchi and you open it up and there is some brifter equipped late '90s early 2000 bike staring at you. I guess if it isn't Carbon and 10+ speeds it is classic
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01-01-12, 07:16 PM
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If you're stunned by the reactions you get for that Bianchi, imagine what it's like when I get my Raleigh Lenton Grand Sport (Cyclo Benelux derailleurs, rod activated front; coil spring rear) out. Even a lot of the more vintage oriented riders I'm around have never seen anything older than a Campagnolo Gran Sport.
01-02-12, 07:51 AM
#35
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Someone told me the same thing a few weeks ago about my '02 Giro, and it's aluminum w/carbon fork! Guess cuz it's not the slanty "compact" geometry and it still has 1" threaded and not 1 1/8".
Well than it's off to the dump with you...you...you compact frame imposter you!
01-02-12, 07:57 AM
#36
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Classic is a completely subjective interpretation...I wouldn't consider your Bianchi classic personally, but there are aluminum and CF bikes I would consider classic. For me classic are the bikes that are going to be lusted after...they're the bikes we see, probably can't afford, and want when we're middle aged. They're the best of the best...the innovators.
01-02-12, 08:15 AM
#37
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Not sure if this exact, but as I recall, from discussions long ago,
Under 10 yrs old = Modern
10 - 20 yrs old = Post Classic
20 - 30 yrs old = Classic
30 - 40 yrs old = Vintage
40 - 60 yrs old = Antique
60 - 80 yrs old = Historic
80+ yrs = Museum piece
It does not matter whether it's a bike, car, or spoons.
It's a generational thing.
It's also flexable as the time gaps often change with different generations.
Some will consider Di-2's, classic, 30 yrs from now.
So yea, you got a Classic.
Under 10 yrs old = Modern
10 - 20 yrs old = Post Classic
20 - 30 yrs old = Classic
30 - 40 yrs old = Vintage
40 - 60 yrs old = Antique
60 - 80 yrs old = Historic
80+ yrs = Museum piece
It does not matter whether it's a bike, car, or spoons.
It's a generational thing.
It's also flexable as the time gaps often change with different generations.
Some will consider Di-2's, classic, 30 yrs from now.
So yea, you got a Classic.
I think there's Old, Vintage, and Classic. Old includes everything past a selected age cutoff, regardless of condition. Any such system should account for stuff that is old but not worth collecting or upgrading. Vintage includes Old, but also stuff that is worth collecting or upgrading. The value judgements should consider history, use by famous people or at famous events, and unique and innovative design and execution. Classic is the same as vintage, but may include post-cutoff or contemporary items sharing those qualities. I don't think it should include items less than 10 years old unless it's a revival of past techniques, design, or technology.
I think catmandew's scale is interesting as a way to establish cutoff points on a timeline.
01-02-12, 09:31 AM
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as the trend towards the plasticizing of components i.e. rims cranks bars derailleurs etc.etc continues ... are there carbon chains yet?...your bike could be considered classic imo...for what its worth lugs rather than tig welding might be a cut off point in a lot of peoples minds....my only modern bike is a lugged bianchi tsx frame from early 90's not oversized tubes and the last version of the original 8 spd ergos from 97,record dual pivot brakes but still classic compared to todays' bikes
a few anacronisms though,had to go with my super record headset and bianchi's version of a turbo saddle...that black ritchey seatpost was replaced gratis from a generous soul on the ibob list with a campy c-record aero....but for a lot of like minded people like the classicrendezvous list the classic cutoff is 83 ,before aero brake levers and indexed shifting
01-02-12, 09:41 AM
#40
You gonna eat that?
Not sure if this exact, but as I recall, from discussions long ago,
Under 10 yrs old = Modern
10 - 20 yrs old = Post Classic
20 - 30 yrs old = Classic
30 - 40 yrs old = Vintage
40 - 60 yrs old = Antique
60 - 80 yrs old = Historic
80+ yrs = Museum piece
It does not matter whether it's a bike, car, or spoons.
Under 10 yrs old = Modern
10 - 20 yrs old = Post Classic
20 - 30 yrs old = Classic
30 - 40 yrs old = Vintage
40 - 60 yrs old = Antique
60 - 80 yrs old = Historic
80+ yrs = Museum piece
It does not matter whether it's a bike, car, or spoons.
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01-02-12, 11:51 AM
#41
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The "what's classic/what's vintage/ what's worthy of collecting" threads seem to create a reality vortex in the space-mind continuem. This JT Rough Stuff fits all the above "it's not a classic" criteria with it's lugless compact frame, but for me and I think many others, it's truly a classic.
I'm almost willing to bet that if it were built today, it might even have been done with.....brifters.........gasp............(followed by the sounds of stones striking flesh)
I'm almost willing to bet that if it were built today, it might even have been done with.....brifters.........gasp............(followed by the sounds of stones striking flesh)
Last edited by Velognome; 01-02-12 at 11:56 AM.
01-02-12, 11:37 PM
#42
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outrageously long seat post! Looks just like what would see on those carbonized Treks and (gasp!) it is a fixie...
No way could anyone consider this to be a "classic," let alone "vintage."
01-02-12, 11:42 PM
#43
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To your average roadie, bikes over 3 years old are classic. Year 2000? That's definitely vintage in roadie years.
Oh, 9-speed? I remember that stuff.
Oh, 9-speed? I remember that stuff.
01-03-12, 01:20 AM
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Note, that time references are not exactly fixed.
Each new generation tends to pick it's own time references.
"Classic" is often used for something that is suddenly made obsolete by a technological leap, yet is still embraced by the generation it was introduced to.
I am sure that there were some adds for "Classic" steel frame bicycles when alloy and titanium frames first made giant in-roads into the cycling community.
If there was to be another leap in techology (lets call it plastitianyite) to mfg. 2 oz, STIFF, aero frames, that you could run over with D9 Cat, then all those carbon frames could suddenly become "Classic".
So, if Bianchi switched all their production to plastitianyite frames in 2013, all the 2012's could suddenly become "Classic".
None of the time frames in my earlier post are engraved in stone. The time frames were set for judging classes in a motorcycle environment, and there was a lot of heated discussion to get there.
As I recall, the time frames pretty much matched some of the more prestigous organized motoring events, in North America, The UK, and Europe.
If somebody called one of my bikes a "Classic", I (personally) would take that as badge of honor and not as a slight.
Classic def. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic
Each new generation tends to pick it's own time references.
"Classic" is often used for something that is suddenly made obsolete by a technological leap, yet is still embraced by the generation it was introduced to.
I am sure that there were some adds for "Classic" steel frame bicycles when alloy and titanium frames first made giant in-roads into the cycling community.
If there was to be another leap in techology (lets call it plastitianyite) to mfg. 2 oz, STIFF, aero frames, that you could run over with D9 Cat, then all those carbon frames could suddenly become "Classic".
So, if Bianchi switched all their production to plastitianyite frames in 2013, all the 2012's could suddenly become "Classic".
None of the time frames in my earlier post are engraved in stone. The time frames were set for judging classes in a motorcycle environment, and there was a lot of heated discussion to get there.
As I recall, the time frames pretty much matched some of the more prestigous organized motoring events, in North America, The UK, and Europe.
If somebody called one of my bikes a "Classic", I (personally) would take that as badge of honor and not as a slight.
Classic def. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic
01-03-12, 01:48 AM
#45
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Just read the OP...top off with a Brooks makes pretty much anything classic in the layman´s eyes - I agree. I would call your bike modern steel with classic features (colour & Brooks).
01-03-12, 03:14 AM
#46
Senior Member
Note, that time references are not exactly fixed.
Each new generation tends to pick it's own time references.
"Classic" is often used for something that is suddenly made obsolete by a technological leap, yet is still embraced by the generation it was introduced to.
I am sure that there were some adds for "Classic" steel frame bicycles when alloy and titanium frames first made giant in-roads into the cycling community.
If there was to be another leap in techology (lets call it plastitianyite) to mfg. 2 oz, STIFF, aero frames, that you could run over with D9 Cat, then all those carbon frames could suddenly become "Classic".
So, if Bianchi switched all their production to plastitianyite frames in 2013, all the 2012's could suddenly become "Classic".
None of the time frames in my earlier post are engraved in stone. The time frames were set for judging classes in a motorcycle environment, and there was a lot of heated discussion to get there.
As I recall, the time frames pretty much matched some of the more prestigous organized motoring events, in North America, The UK, and Europe.
If somebody called one of my bikes a "Classic", I (personally) would take that as badge of honor and not as a slight.
Classic def. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic
Each new generation tends to pick it's own time references.
"Classic" is often used for something that is suddenly made obsolete by a technological leap, yet is still embraced by the generation it was introduced to.
I am sure that there were some adds for "Classic" steel frame bicycles when alloy and titanium frames first made giant in-roads into the cycling community.
If there was to be another leap in techology (lets call it plastitianyite) to mfg. 2 oz, STIFF, aero frames, that you could run over with D9 Cat, then all those carbon frames could suddenly become "Classic".
So, if Bianchi switched all their production to plastitianyite frames in 2013, all the 2012's could suddenly become "Classic".
None of the time frames in my earlier post are engraved in stone. The time frames were set for judging classes in a motorcycle environment, and there was a lot of heated discussion to get there.
As I recall, the time frames pretty much matched some of the more prestigous organized motoring events, in North America, The UK, and Europe.
If somebody called one of my bikes a "Classic", I (personally) would take that as badge of honor and not as a slight.
Classic def. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic
01-03-12, 09:11 AM
#48
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Hell, I'm "historic" and have got "museum piece" well in my sights.
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01-03-12, 09:13 AM
#49
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Forget the age. It's "vintage" or especially "classic" if the seller is attempting to get away with overpricing it.
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“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
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Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
01-03-12, 09:16 AM
#50
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And 40+ years old? To quote the guy at one of our local bike shops (Rowlett's), "Why are you still riding that junk?" Haven't been back there since.
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“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
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Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
