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using a modern campy BB with super/nuovo record cranks...IT WORKS!!!

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using a modern campy BB with super/nuovo record cranks...IT WORKS!!!

Old 01-21-12, 08:26 AM
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wallymann
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using a modern campy BB with super/nuovo record cranks...IT WORKS!!!

background: many months ago i confirmed that a modern centaur cartridge BB w/ 111mm spindle (symmetric iso taper) works as a perfect replacement for the original C-Record/Croce d'Aune/ChorusRS cranksets, as the original spec is also for a 111mm symmetric BB with ISO tapers. here's that thread.

well, i've also recently done some testing to see how well a modern centaur cartridge BB w/ 115.5mm spindle (also symmetric w/ iso taper -- normally intended for campy's modern triple chainsets) would work for SR/NR cranks. while the overall spindle-length is fine (SR/NR cranks are originally spec'd with ~115mm spindles). the potential trouble here is that the original BB for SR/NR cranks are assymetric, with +5mm on the drive-side spindle.

in reality, this modern symmetric BB works fine. to get that +5mm drive-side offset, you only need to run a 2.5mm spacer under the fixed-cup. since the BB spindle is in effect a "closed system," pushing the drive-side spindle outward +2.5mm with the spacer *also* pulls the non-drive spindle inward -2.5mm. the net being a +5mm shift to the drive-side.

fitted this setup to my mid '90s gazelle last night and it works perfectly!



i will caution, however, that SR/NR cranks have very narrow Q-factors which also means the small chain-ring will come *very* close to the stays on many bikes. with the crank-arms properly torqued down, i have 1-2mm clearance between the small cookie and the drive-side chainstay...it's TIGHT!



i'm actually going to keep searching for a modern 120mm symmetric BB with ISO tapers (non-Phil wood). that +5mm added length will be nice for clearance, with SR/NR cranks having a q-factor something like 135mm using a 115mm spindle, the extra 5mm puts you at ~140mm -- still 6mm narrower than modern "low-profile" campy cranks with a 146mm q-factor.

Last edited by wallymann; 01-21-12 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 01-21-12, 08:35 AM
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Clearances will always differ depending on the extent of dimpling on the chainstay.

For all some people say in favor of chainline, I've run into quite a few frames that won't allow a 52/42 to be fitted close enough to the frame to allow for said optimum chainline.

-Kurt
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Old 01-21-12, 08:53 AM
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I'm happy to see that it's fitting! I just recently spent some time working on an improper bottom bracket that worked out fine too. It's a great feeling.

From looking at https://www.minortriad.com/campagbb.html I would think that a 'proper' NR bottom bracket wouldn't actually have fit this well on your modern Gazelle! The original NR spindles were only 3mm longer on the drive side, which would correspond to using a 1.5mm spacer on your modern symmetrical bottom bracket. That extra millimeter of clearance from the 2.5mm spacer seems to have made all the difference.

Cheers!
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Old 01-21-12, 09:30 AM
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I did that on my now departed Burgundy 72 Paramount P13, it worked great. When I got the frame I didn't have the correct NR bottom bracket, so I gave it a try.
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Old 01-21-12, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MrEss View Post
... I would think that a 'proper' NR bottom bracket wouldn't actually have fit this well on your modern Gazelle...
yes, it would...in fact i have a proper NR BB sitting on my workbench, but lately i've been favoring using a high quality modern cartridge BB where possible/practical.
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Old 01-21-12, 12:05 PM
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I currently have a NR crankset with 110mm spindle mounted on the Masi frame I'm building up. It is close but seems to have enough clearance with a 42T inner ring. However I wouldn't turn down an opportunity to use a 115 (in which case the 110 will be unused).
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Old 01-21-12, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmuller View Post
I currently have a NR crankset with 110mm spindle mounted on the Masi frame I'm building up. It is close but seems to have enough clearance with a 42T inner ring. However I wouldn't turn down an opportunity to use a 115 (in which case the 110 will be unused).
Sounds as if you'd be better off with a 112 or 113.5 than jumping to a 115 (assuming we're talking about asymmetrical Campagnolo cup and spindle BB's).

-Kurt
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Old 05-18-13, 06:56 AM
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Could you give us an update on how it worked out? Could you post some pictures that show the bike from both sides to show how the modern black bb looks on a vintage bike? cheers -ps-seems hard to get the spacers locally;where did you get your spacer and what's the size? cheers

Originally Posted by wallymann View Post
background: many months ago i confirmed that a modern centaur cartridge BB w/ 111mm spindle (symmetric iso taper) works as a perfect replacement for the original C-Record/Croce d'Aune/ChorusRS cranksets, as the original spec is also for a 111mm symmetric BB with ISO tapers. here's that thread.

well, i've also recently done some testing to see how well a modern centaur cartridge BB w/ 115.5mm spindle (also symmetric w/ iso taper -- normally intended for campy's modern triple chainsets) would work for SR/NR cranks. while the overall spindle-length is fine (SR/NR cranks are originally spec'd with ~115mm spindles). the potential trouble here is that the original BB for SR/NR cranks are assymetric, with +5mm on the drive-side spindle.

in reality, this modern symmetric BB works fine. to get that +5mm drive-side offset, you only need to run a 2.5mm spacer under the fixed-cup. since the BB spindle is in effect a "closed system," pushing the drive-side spindle outward +2.5mm with the spacer *also* pulls the non-drive spindle inward -2.5mm. the net being a +5mm shift to the drive-side.

fitted this setup to my mid '90s gazelle last night and it works perfectly!



i will caution, however, that SR/NR cranks have very narrow Q-factors which also means the small chain-ring will come *very* close to the stays on many bikes. with the crank-arms properly torqued down, i have 1-2mm clearance between the small cookie and the drive-side chainstay...it's TIGHT!



i'm actually going to keep searching for a modern 120mm symmetric BB with ISO tapers (non-Phil wood). that +5mm added length will be nice for clearance, with SR/NR cranks having a q-factor something like 135mm using a 115mm spindle, the extra 5mm puts you at ~140mm -- still 6mm narrower than modern "low-profile" campy cranks with a 146mm q-factor.
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Old 05-18-13, 07:47 AM
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What's the size of a 2.5 mm spacer?
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Old 05-18-13, 07:53 AM
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I've also got a modern campy centaur BB fitted onto my chorus equipped lemond. No problem at all that.
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Old 05-18-13, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
What's the size of a 2.5 mm spacer?
Dunno. When was the War of 1812?
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Old 05-18-13, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
What's the size of a 2.5 mm spacer?
98.425 mils. Piece of cake.
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Old 05-19-13, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
What's the size of a 2.5 mm spacer?
Meaning I.D. and O.D.?

For the O.P. what is the actual distance between your inner ChainRing and the stay? It is hare to guestimate, but I would guess it is the 2.5mm of your spacer. During hill climbing, do you ever get flexure and contact?
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Old 11-12-14, 08:03 PM
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you must have been sick when they taught that in math class

"in reality, this modern symmetric BB works fine. to get that +5mm drive-side offset, you only need to run a 2.5mm spacer under the fixed-cup. since the BB spindle is in effect a "closed system," pushing the drive-side spindle outward +2.5mm with the spacer *also* pulls the non-drive spindle inward -2.5mm. the net being a +5mm shift to the drive-side."

Hi, I think you must have been off sick when this was taught in math class- when you add a 2.5 mm spacer you are only moving the right side 2.5 mm to the right. You will not get the proper 5 mm offset that comes with a post 77 nr spindle. I know because I went with your faulty math-lol- and now when in 42-16 the chain rubs on the 52. I find I don't really need the 42-16 because I think the 52-21 is about the same anyway.
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Old 11-12-14, 08:19 PM
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probably too tight as you have to take FLEX (cranks, frame, even BB spindle) into account.
go climb a steep mountain off saddle and then let us know !
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