Help ID old nervex lugged frame
 

Guys;- Not sure of the year / manufacturer or if cinelli sticker on front is legit, probably not? it is stamped nervex on BB (along with something else?) No serial no. anywhere, campagnolo is stammped on dropouts, any clues?

http://s822.photobucket.com/albums/zz143/bjohno/Nervex/

with the wrap-around seat stays and
 

bullet shaped joints into the dropouts, I would say English.

I cant quit make out the serial number over the repaint but it is there right under the Nervex label on the BB. It appears to be similar to the 60's Gitane I have.

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...2/DSC00387.jpg

I read somewhere that the no's under nervex were dimensional no's of the BB itself? maybe? so looking at yours it looks like 59degree3064degree.... if this is true

Yeah, thats a lug mnufacturer's dimensional notation instead of a bike manufacturer's serial number. Look elsewhere on the bike for a SN.

The stay treatment looks Allegro-ish to me... with the pump pegs, if original, I'd guess 60s or before, except for the bb cable guides!

The way the lower pump peg is brazed to the down tube is one thing I've never seen before; the shape of the wrapover of the seat stays is another. Can you tell us the outside diameters of the tubes, and the seat post size? Have you looked for tubing markings, serial number &c on the steerer tube?

Thanks for the info I found the serial number it is on the other side of the BB Right on the edge of the downtube. The 64 Gitane does have the same seat cluster, lug work and fork but has different rear dropouts and braze ones.

it IS very similar to an Allegro stay wrap, but not exactly (at least not exactly like MY Allegro). Allegros usually used a Georg Fisher sandcast BB shell, not a Nervex pro and their serial numbers were on a distinctive brass plate brazed onto the seat tube. But, anything could be possible as a custom frame or limited edition...might be Swiss in any case, might be French...very much doubt it's a Gitane.
Time for some dimensions/figures: OD of the main tubes, seat post size, BB threading?
EDIT: I can read the numbers on the BB: British, so I have to retract my guess about this being FR or Swiss. Probably British...no idea on a specific make but given the Nervex pro lugs,BB shell and level of workmanship, it's high quality.

Absolutely! Beautiful frame.
I am not so sure about that. Reading on BB-cup ("1.37 x 24T") to me looks like Shimano lettering, so it would probably be (much) later than frame. Perhaps frame was re-threaded from French to British (not uncommon with aged french bikes), along with paint job and refurbishment. Somehow frame looks french to me.
Diameter of stem (22.0 or 22.2 mm)?

Apart from Nervex Professional lugs: Urago (seat stay treatment)? http://www.flickr.com/photos/7448869...-35961386@N00/

Here a quite similar Urago to bjohn's frame with Nervex pro lugs and even similar fork:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1070387...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1070387...n/photostream/

Nope, sorry but I'm not having it: the diameter of the FR and BSC shells are so close you can really only (realistically) ream one out and re-tap to Italian threading (36 x 24). I know it's a later Shimano BB unit, but I'm 99% sure this is and was BSC threading...so I'm 99% sure it's a British made frame (1% reserved for Dutch, but not even that much).
It would be sweet if it was a Urago, but the wrap-over stay treatment is not the same. I was willing to say it was in the Allegro ballpark (and so allow it might be some other Swiss) but it's not even in the Urago ballpark...and that forkcrown is a stock Nervex pattern, you'll see the same on Gitane TdF, Super Corsa and some Peugeot PX10s.
I don't mean to slam you, and THANKS for trying :thumb:

that pump peg screams "retrofit" to me. I'm thinking it is French. I really like the seat cluster

I'm pretty sure that the fork crown was modified prior to construction of the fork. Given that and the ornate seat cluster, it seems likely that it's a custom.

I'm envious that Nervex would sell you half-degree bb shells

actually I'm being too brash (but it's the beer talking, really) there certainly are some likely later braze-ons, but those are the TT cable guides and perhaps the pump pegs and the BB cable guides. The forkCROWN does not look in any way different from a stock crown to me. The bend of the fork blades and the way the forkends are angled straight down screams French. It's the main thing that makes me doubt my brash "british" guess. The other clue is that I've never seen a 3TTT stem with a FR size quill, but I haven't seen everything yet, either.
If the OP ever gets back with seat post and tube ODs I can stop this brash guessing (and get back to beer drinking!).

Sorry for late reply,
Seat post = 26.2mm
Head tube ID = 30mm (stem 22.2)
BB 1.37x24 english, and thread looks good.
I'm still looking in hope to find a serial no.......
The BB stamping of 'nervex' and it's dim's looks old & faint, like it was stamped by a girl (sorry girls)

thanks for the info, now that the beer's worn off I'm afraid my guesses have not improved. It still has more "permanent" features that point to a British frame, such as the BB threading and the standard quill. But that size seatpost doesn't help things. Are you sure it's really 26.2 and not 27.2 and that it's a proper fit? The next thing to measure (with digital calipers) are the outer diameters of all 3 main tubes: if they measure exact even mm, they are metric...fractional mm mean Imperial, AKA British dimensions.

The only trivia I can add is what I've read: so many frames with Nervex Pro lugs came with a different brand of BB shell because adding that shell increased the cost dramatically. The fact this has all the Nervex Pro bits, including fork crown, makes me think it was a top-of-line frame (in its day).

Hmm, Mondias and my Le Champion came stock with them, are they not French sized?

26.2 mm could be straight gauge 531, but doesn't rule out butted 531. I have a Jeunet (French) frame with butted 531 tubes that takes a 26.2 post. And my Raleigh RRA, also butted 531, takes a 25.4; a shim of some sort is brazed into the tube. This probably isn't helpful information, though.

I'm just saying I haven't seen one (and measured it myself) that had a 22.0 quill, but the fact that there were some Mondias and at least one Motobecane Le Champ that had one reinforces my second point: I haven't seen it all. ;) They (3TTT) are an Italian brand...we know at least one other Italian brand (Cinelli) offered a (rare) FR quill stem.

I suppose that a 26.2 post might be credible in a frame with all this other "bling" if it had:
1. a fastback style rear that required a brazed-in shim (ala Cinelli SC).
2. used a plain gauge 531 (or another brand) seat tube (hard to fathom this given the not-huge size and apparent high-quality of frame), and even with this the "more common size" was from 26.4 to 27.0, IMHO.
3. was metric 531 tubing (OD of the tubes will confirm/deny this)

Top tube OD = 1"
Seat tube OD = 1 1/8" ID = 1 1/32
Down tube OD = 1 1/8
Head tube OD = 1 1/4 ID = 1 3/16 (30mm?)

Hope this helps

definitely does and says that these are Imperial size tubes. Therefore, 99.9% certain that it's NOT French despite all the FR frame components. I'll still bet it's made in the UK and probably has had some braze-ons added later in life when it was undergoing a re-spray. Don't know why it has the 26.2 seat post since it seems like this should be a frame constructed of all 531 DB tubing...but, there you go. Still couldn't even guess at a builder's name but it's clearly a high-quality frame and deserves the best treatment.

Agreed, it's probably British but I don't necessarily agree it should be a 531DB frame. The frame is boom era or older. At that time 531DB was pretty much reserved for top end racing frames. There was a belief that butted tubing was too light for everday usage, given road conditions. Grand touring bicycles of the day were usually straight gauge, unless custom built, as were most mid-range racing bicycles.

Of course we can't dismiss the possibility of a sleeve but that should be easy to check. The head of spoke, inserted into the seat tube, should catch on bottom edge, when dragged up the tube. Alternately, there's the possibility that the 26.2mm post is actually undersize and the lug has been pinched int he process. The quick check for that is whether the cinch slot is narrower at the top than the bottom.