upgrading downtube shifters.
03-09-12, 01:06 PM
#1
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upgrading downtube shifters.
How hard and expensive is it to switch from down tube shifters to brake lever shifters on an old 10 speed. If it is possible what kind would I get?
03-09-12, 01:09 PM
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Bar end shifters would be the cheapest to get the shifting up to your cockpit and yet still be compatible with a 5 speed cluster.
To get to STI/Ergo I think you would need at minimum 7 or 8 speed cluster on the back (probably necessitating a new wheel), along with the shifters themselves, and new derailleurs.
To get to STI/Ergo I think you would need at minimum 7 or 8 speed cluster on the back (probably necessitating a new wheel), along with the shifters themselves, and new derailleurs.
03-09-12, 01:16 PM
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Campy Ergo 8 speed will work with Sachs 7 speed freewheels. I can't speak for Shimano STI.
You might consider bar end shifters such as Suntour. You won't get any indexing to work with 5 speed freewheels.
03-09-12, 01:20 PM
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Perhaps something like these Retroshift levers would do the trick. They're not dirt cheap, but would be less than all the parts needed to go to integrated levers.
03-09-12, 01:45 PM
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Kelly Take Offs would also get you to the same end for ~$50 assuming you already have cables and like your current brake levers.
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03-09-12, 01:59 PM
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I considered this about four years ago for my '88 Nishiki Olympic. I determined it was cheaper to buy another bike rather than upgrade with all new stuff! The Nishiki remains original.
I second the recommendation for bar-end shifters.
I second the recommendation for bar-end shifters.
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03-09-12, 02:18 PM
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How about stem shifters or grip shifters?
03-09-12, 02:31 PM
#8
You gonna eat that?
Kelly Take Offs would also get you to the same end for ~$50 assuming you don't mind a butt-ugly kludge of a solution.
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"However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
03-09-12, 02:32 PM
#9
You gonna eat that?
Won't work with drop bars; drop bars are a bigger diameter than straight bars; the shifters won't fit.
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I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
03-09-12, 02:34 PM
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Much cheaper to just pick up a used bike with the type of shifters you want. Will need a replacement rear wheel, new cassette, new chain, new RD, all new cables and housings, new shifters, possibly new crank, possibly new FD, plus quite a bit of labor unless you do it yourself. I've done it several times, but the only reasons it was not ridiculously expensive is that I did all the work myself, and I found a donor bike cheap to supply the parts. It still was not a cheap upgrade.
03-09-12, 02:37 PM
#12
You gonna eat that?
Bar-end shifters is the solution I used to go from this
to this
to this
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I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
03-09-12, 02:40 PM
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Strong talk from a a man who shoved his head up a chicken's but and decided to call it a hat.
I kid. Seriously though, I've enjoyed them and found them great, but will be upgrading to campy ergos as soon as I get the wheels built. Yeah, it's expensive to transition over, but in my case it'll be also so I can learn how to build up a bike as I replace pretty much every part except the frame, fork, and fenders. Anything not starting with an F gets replaced.
I kid. Seriously though, I've enjoyed them and found them great, but will be upgrading to campy ergos as soon as I get the wheels built. Yeah, it's expensive to transition over, but in my case it'll be also so I can learn how to build up a bike as I replace pretty much every part except the frame, fork, and fenders. Anything not starting with an F gets replaced.
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03-09-12, 02:41 PM
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03-09-12, 02:44 PM
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Stem shifters can be pretty good. I'm even able to shift hands-free, with my knee!
Don't laugh, you can get good at this. I've even pulled off downshifts, without taking my hands off the bar or dropping down onto the saddle.
You can even thumb-flick an upshift while keeping hands on the bar, maybe a downshift depending on the stem length, shifter, etc.
I've put Grip-Shifters on road bars, adjacent to the stem.
The bar has t be steel, 7/8" (22mm) and not the more-common (24mm) alloy bars.
You have to fit the sleeves on one at a time, then asemble in place. Also you'll need to slice the barrel about 1 inch, with a drill-hole termination to prevent cracking, so as to slide the barrels over the bends.
It works great, but better if you start with the older ones that have a downward cable exit. Either that or you might want to find the widest steel handlebar that you can.
I also was able to get a pair of Suntour's twist shifters on a steel road bar, but was a different procedure so as to be able to reassemble the pieces in place. I had to modify the parts with a file iir.
Don't laugh, you can get good at this. I've even pulled off downshifts, without taking my hands off the bar or dropping down onto the saddle.
You can even thumb-flick an upshift while keeping hands on the bar, maybe a downshift depending on the stem length, shifter, etc.
I've put Grip-Shifters on road bars, adjacent to the stem.
The bar has t be steel, 7/8" (22mm) and not the more-common (24mm) alloy bars.
You have to fit the sleeves on one at a time, then asemble in place. Also you'll need to slice the barrel about 1 inch, with a drill-hole termination to prevent cracking, so as to slide the barrels over the bends.
It works great, but better if you start with the older ones that have a downward cable exit. Either that or you might want to find the widest steel handlebar that you can.
I also was able to get a pair of Suntour's twist shifters on a steel road bar, but was a different procedure so as to be able to reassemble the pieces in place. I had to modify the parts with a file iir.
Last edited by dddd; 03-09-12 at 02:46 PM. Reason: ...
03-09-12, 03:38 PM
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I think the question needs to be asked, what kind of old 10 speed. Them frame may be well worth putting ~$300 in if you like it and it's a good steel frame. But your are looking at issues liKe 126 to 130mm (or more) spread in the rear and a whole new drive train plus a new rear wheel.
Last edited by drrobwave; 03-09-12 at 03:39 PM. Reason: Spelling
03-09-12, 03:52 PM
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Bar end shifters are not for everybody... that's enough said about that.
03-09-12, 04:46 PM
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If the bike is a "old 10 speed" you may have to spend WAY more than you wish. You will have to:
Move up to an 8 speed cassette at least, 8 speed Shimano STI can be found, 9 is more available and 10 is common. You must match cassette gearing with STI gearing.
Try a Hybrid setup, 8/9 speed Shimano cassette with 10 speed Campagnolo Ergo shifters (supposedly less expensive.)
New wheels to support the 8/9/10 speed cassette.
New cables.
New chain to match the number of speeds you switch to.
Verify and adjust that your rear spacing is correct, 130 for 8/9/10 speed.
Which all means you better really love this frame, because their are a ton of bikes for sale everyday that will give you what you want.
If you want to get you hands up you can switch to Bar Ends, Paul Thumbies or Kelly Take Offs.
Here is an example of Kelly Take Offs:
Move up to an 8 speed cassette at least, 8 speed Shimano STI can be found, 9 is more available and 10 is common. You must match cassette gearing with STI gearing.
Try a Hybrid setup, 8/9 speed Shimano cassette with 10 speed Campagnolo Ergo shifters (supposedly less expensive.)
New wheels to support the 8/9/10 speed cassette.
New cables.
New chain to match the number of speeds you switch to.
Verify and adjust that your rear spacing is correct, 130 for 8/9/10 speed.
Which all means you better really love this frame, because their are a ton of bikes for sale everyday that will give you what you want.
If you want to get you hands up you can switch to Bar Ends, Paul Thumbies or Kelly Take Offs.
Here is an example of Kelly Take Offs:
03-10-12, 01:40 PM
#19
You gonna eat that?
Dey see me hatin', dey hatin'.
__________________
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
03-10-12, 02:03 PM
#20
Full Member
From an engineering perspective, I totally agree. No amount of fingertip convenience can beat the reliability and precision of shorter more direct cable travel. I just recently discovered index shifting, SIS and Accushift, so that's the extent of upgrading I would suggest for "10 speeds". Just look at all the extra cabling and doodads that come with brifters and even barends. Then again, I tend to equate the development of aero brakes with the moon landing...
03-10-12, 03:14 PM
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03-10-12, 04:21 PM
#24
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What I've figured out about downtube friction shifters, at least those that are well lubricated down to the lever pivot and that have smooth cables, is that there is so little force needed to make a shift.
Indexed shifters can't compare.
And the low level of force is what makes friction downtube shifting action so rapid, and yet so easy to control.
As far is vintage bikes though, I always upgrede to the Hyperglide level of chain, and prefer going to the narrowest chain allowed by the chainring's spacing, usually it's the 9-speed Shimano chains.
I avoid Italian and French freewheels for the most part, preferring Uniglide and Suntour freewheels.
Indexed shifters can't compare.
And the low level of force is what makes friction downtube shifting action so rapid, and yet so easy to control.
As far is vintage bikes though, I always upgrede to the Hyperglide level of chain, and prefer going to the narrowest chain allowed by the chainring's spacing, usually it's the 9-speed Shimano chains.
I avoid Italian and French freewheels for the most part, preferring Uniglide and Suntour freewheels.
03-10-12, 08:02 PM
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Those Kelly takeoffs are the ugliest thing I have ever seen. I would rather have cheapo stem shifters drivin into my nuts than get caught with those things on my bicyclette.