randyjawa 

I get my hands on quite a few bicycles, each year. Let's say 1000, just to spit out a number. Of course, not all of them are mine, but I do get my hands on them all.

But that brings up the miserable problem of too many high end, highly sought after, collectable vintage bicycles. I cannot keep them all. I cannot build them all. And I cannot maintain them all. Heck, there are times when I cannot even find space to store them all.

But I want to build a lot of them. Doing so, of course, is almost impossible for a single man (no, I'm married - I meant just one person) to complete all the work. However...

I want to build up the nice bikes, and start to do so. Some (actually, lots and lots) get finished, and some never will (probably).

Presently, I have several projects on the go: a 1975 CCM Tour du Canada, a 1971 Bottecchia Professional, a 1939 CCM "Road Racer", an early eighties Nishiki Continental, a 1958 Legnano Gran Premio, an early seventies Grandis and a Tom Richey mountain bicycle.









Will I ever get them all completed? Will you? How many of you have more projects started than time, or money for that matter, to complete?

Sadly, I can't wait to find the next bike to take apart and get together - someday, which as Tom Cruise says in the movei Knight & Day, "someday is really code for never".

noglider 

I've been thinking about this. Did it bother your sense of ethics to keep for yourself the things that were donated in the belief that they would go to the poor?

triathloner

I think if you have the passion to re-connect a thousand bikes a year to the poor, I would have no problem keeping a half a dozen of the nicest bikes for myself. In all actuality, the poor don't need a skinny tire old bike that they don't have the proper pump or tools to service anyway. Just my thoughts, Al.

KonAaron Snake 

Of course they could use the money that the skinny wheeled bike would sell for. I have no opinion here...Randy is doing a lot more good than I am, so I probably don't have the right to judge. That said, I also understand Tom's reaction...my local bike community group employees have to buy the donated stuff that they want.

That Grandis is enough to make me want to start a collection...dear lord I love that bike. I don't know what it is about Grandis, but it just gives me chills down my back.

peter_d

I've got to know Randy a little over the past while and know that he puts in countless hours as a volunteer for Bikes for Humanity. They ship literally thousands of practical bikes to third world countries. I won't speak for Randy on this but i believe that as volunteers they're allowed to keep a small number of found bikes in recognition of the time they volunteer.

bikemore 

Um, ya. The think I have to focus on is riding more. This clearly means less time fixing/rebuilding bikes. Grandis looks nice.

bikemore 

Bikes not Bombs in Boston has a system. So many hours volunteering goes towards a free bike. They keep records so that it is clear that you earned it.

noglider 

I'm not sure where I stand on the issue. I don't know what I would do in his shoes. The argument that he does a great amount of good is not water-tight. A lot of good doesn't, by itself, justify doing something selfish.

noglider 

I don't know how I would handle it if I were in Randy's shoes. I might do the same as he does. The trouble is, the great amount of good he doesn't doesn't, by itself, create an ethical opportunity to take assets that were donated under an understanding. It's basically like telling a client you'll do one thing for him and then doing something else and not telling him.

Oops, sorry for the double post.

KonAaron Snake 

I'm curious as to how it's marketed too...if I donated a valuable bike, I'd expect it to go over seas or be sold to fund something that went overseas.

cudak888 

Start by sending the Grandis to me

Jokes aside, even if you weren't salvaging the C&V machines in exchange for rebuilding the other Bikes for Humanities equipment, wouldn't you and the organization still be overwhelmed by the sheer number of bikes - regardless of what they are?

I've executed some pretty fast full tear-downs plus bits-and-pieces build-ups in the past, but I'd figure that it'd start wearing you down after a while - especially if you have to resort to stripping wrecked beach cruisers in order to turn cheap MTB's into reliable singlespeeds. Just curious, for I've often wondered how someone would address a pile of bikes to the magnitude that Randy has to fix at Bikes for Humanities.

-Kurt

skyrider

Lets not split hairs here. Hes not taking food from the poor, after all is said and done their just bikes. If you can save a dozen high end classic bikes from hundreds, more power to you. Nothing worse than watching a high end bike rusting away or being abused. Many of Randy s bikes find there way to new owners to be enjoyed for many years to come. I think its a great situation.

FlatTop

The bikes donated are supplemented by the many bikes culled from the Thunder Bay Classic & Vintage Bicycle Dump. Nobody pays for the valuable service of saving those bikes from becoming scrap or landfill.

I imagine many of the donated bikes would be scrapped if donating to Bikes For Humanity was not an option. Given the good that Randy does, I really can't begrudge him the lagniappe of an occasional bicycle.

Amesja

Many of the items "donated for the poor" are sold to non-poor people in order to raise cash for the needy. That's how Goodwill works in the USA. The stores sell stuff at a really good price and I think a lot of people think that the storefronts are only for poor people to shop at and if people who are non-poor go there then they are "stealing from the poor."

But the whole point is to raise money for the things that Goodwill Industries does with that money.

I don't see anything wrong with an on-staff conieseur skimming the higher-end "junk" bikes while volunteering at a charity that is raising money for, or even building bikes for, "the poor."

What does a poor person need with a vintage high-end bike? If it really is a valuable bike then it'll only get stolen from them or they will flip it for the cash -not the purpose that the charity is going for I bet. They probably won't appreciate a limited/rare bike any more than they would any good solid transportation unless someone told them it was a valuable collector's/vintage ride.

If someone is volunteering time and skilled labor to such an operation on a regular basis I don't see anything wrong with having the perk of being able to pick through the stock and pulling out bikes that wouldn't be appreciated by the "needy" any more than the good solid bikes that get built to last and handed out to the needy (or sold for cash to the general public -as they probably would go for no more than the cheaper bikes anyhow unless a few collectors both saw it and started a bidding war on it on the showroom. Most folks in the charity wouldn't even appreciate the nicer stuff or know to price it up and the clientelle would probably just pass it over it was priced higher.

The other option if you aren't going to use the nicer stuff as an enticement to the volunteer or underpaid crew is to pull it out and sell it on ebay to raise even more money. I guess that is up to the management of the place on how they want to run it. If a volunteer is allowed to pick through the junk and pick out a few for themselves as a perk of working there then I don't think it is anyone's business.

The amount of money and resources most "charities" waste on overhead and "fundraising" would shock and amaze most people. Sometimes it is well over 50% of the cash and other donations go towards overhead. This is how charities work.

This is why I rarely will give $ to a charity as they will likely just waste it. If it is a worthy cause I will volunteer labor and help out. While your labor can be squandered and wasted it is much more likely that I'll be able to see it being wasted and will find another charity to volunteer for.

That's just my $.02

3alarmer 

How exactly did this turn into the judgement of Randy thread exactly ?

We do the same kinda ethical deciding at the Bike Kitchen here. Every now
and then (and it is pretty damned infrequently) something nice comes in a
C+V or better road bike. The volunteers pretty much get a shot at them
prior to the general public. They usually get sold to a volunteer.

If the only thing you can offer your volunteers is yet another teardown
and rebuild of the latest in a long string of Roadmasters, you won't have
many of them next year.

And the idea of sending high end road bikes to third world countries is
a non starter. If you're implying that somehow this stuff ought to be sold
and the proceeds used to further the endeavor, I wonder at your naivete.

In keeping with the spirit of the OP, and to try to get back on topic, my
own project queue is the longest it's ever been. I think I can finish what
I have backlogged here in about a year of the time I can allot to it.

If I could devote a month full time, I think I could get out the bulk of it.

I may have to do that, because my wife is threatening to have me put
out again. Something about being able to park in the garage again, or
some other nonsensical notion.

repechage

I have decided that maintaining of the bikes is the issue, I have carved out time to ride, but it eats into the workbench time directly.
My plan is to keep a "dirty dozen" road bikes, one or two track bikes and two mtbs., one rigid, one early full suspension.
Then I have to make it 11 to make room for that disc brake road bike.

To get to that number will require divesting of 20 or so. The first 5 to wave goodbye to are easy, after that is gets more difficult.

Amesja

I find myself wanting to build/restore bikes more for myself rather than sell them. The prices keep going up but people keep coming to buy them because some friend told them my bikes were nice.

I've built 1 new bike for myself this month and am starting on the second one. I don't have a lot of enthusiasm for the pile of bikes in the garage I bought in order to sell right now. I initially got into the hobby of restoring and selling bikes in order to pay for my habit and the fun of building bikes as a hobby that paid for itself. I'm about $750 in the red right now with the stuff I bought for myself this spring as well as the bikes in the garage I want to sell -maybe a little bit more. They keep piling up and I've been digging into my wife's coffee can of cash from when she sold her beater Miata as my "BlackHeron" bike reserves have been depleted. If I sell 2-3 bikes this spring I think I might be back into the black and the rest of the bikes in the garage will be sold to replenish my own cookie jar and rebuild the BlackHeronBikes reserves for next year.

Of course that will all go out the window if I find another bike that I don't want to sell and keep for myself -especially if it is an expensive purchase and needs expensive vintage parts to "make it whole."

I'm a sucker like that.

rccardr 

Randy, keep on doing what you're doing. You can sleep at night and that's really all that counts.

On the topic of PROJECTS, however, what I do is limit myself to three 'riders' each year (well, maybe four if there's one I just can't give up, like my resto-mod Tempo). Two of them are new-to-me scratch builds and are generally unusual or high-end, or something really different from my primary rider, The Amazing Red Merckx. This year one is a titanium GT Edge with DA 7700 and the other will be yet another Cannondale ST but updated with 105 10 speed bits.

On top of those, I spend the winter building and boxing bikes for sale in the spring- usually 8 or 10 of them. The whole deal- refinished frames, updated drivetrains, new consumables, the works. During The First Crazy Week Of Bike Season- around April 1st- I'll sell them all on CL in a single mind-numbing burst. The rest of the year I just ride a lot and maintain my 3 (or 4) riders. Works for me.

eippo1

I see no reason to judge - the man puts in huge amounts of time to help this organization and this is how he is paid. I volunteer for lots of nonprofits and get "paid" by them in swag and gift certificates. Some of these items were meant to go into auctions etc, but didn't end up going for whatever reason. Do I feel bad accepting them? Nope.

That said, I picked up a few bikes and also managed to take on too much with my current stock of bikes as to parts etc. and it has been taking forever since I only have a few hours to spare a week. I have parts everywhere and am having a nightmare of a time trying to match metallic pink. I'm going to order up some Mary Kay touch-up before I give up and get it powdercoated.

Kobe 

What happens to the 3 or 4 riders? Do they get sold at year end and the most you will ever ride a bike is one season?

photogravity

+1,000,000 I have yet to figure out why this thread went sideways, but Randy offers more to the bicycling community than almost anyone I know ranging from his involvement in Bicycles for Humanity to his comprehensive My Ten Speeds website, which offers tons of practical advice to gearheads like us.

Randy, keep up the great work you do!

randyjawa 

Not at all. I am absolutely up front with people about what I am doing.

What did used to bother me was that people used to think that all bicycles, collected by B4H, went to Africa. When I pick up donated bicycles, or offer drop off instructions to people wishing to bring bikes by, I always take the time to tell people, given the chance to do so, that not all bikes are going to be sent overseas. Some of the bicycles will be refurbished and sold locally, or given to non-profit organizations free of charge. Some are sold, in bulk, to buyers in other cities, and some (the odd one that I get being an example), are earned by Bicycles for Humanity volunteers, through the B4H Earn A Bike Program. And anyone can earn a bicycle by volunteering their time to the endeavor.

But your concern, regarding ethics or, perhaps conflict of interest, is a good one and, quite frankly, has been on my mind also. But history is important to understand my apparent confusion.

When I started helping B4H, old Roadsters, and Ten Speeds, and Antiques, were being thrown away at the Dump, by B4H volunteers. Thrown away because their target destination - Africa, would not be an appropriate place to send and use such bikes. Sending an old Ten Speed across the ocean, rather than a more appropriate mount, such as a mountain bike, was not a good idea.

We can get about 500 bikes in a box, plus parts, and every bike we send is the most appropriate we can get our hands on. Put another way, an old Ten Speed will not take up the space of a mountain bike, simply because the mountain bike will be many times more useful to its eventual recipient,overseas.

When I came on the scene, there was talk of being selective in what we would and would not accept in the way of bicycle donations. I suggested, from a business point of view, that the needy people in Africa (anywhere, for that matter, even in my own home town) were our customers. So, too, were the people in Thunder Bay, who were giving away their bicycles.

We, at B4H, were offering Thunder Bay residents an opportunity to share, their unwanted bicycles, in a meaningful manner, that would help Mother Earth and people in need. I suggested, to our B4H group that we could not pick and choose bicycles, when offered. The group agreed that, to do so might give us a bad name. It was decided that we would meet the needs of our domestic customers, by accepting anything of a bicycle nature, be it junk or treasure.

With that in mind, the Mountain Bikes, the Ten Speeds, the Roadsters, the Antiques, the rusted, the incomplete, the absolute junk and boxes of parts were all accepted. This soon became a problem, because we had too many bicycles that we had no use, or outlet, for. We hauled them to the metal scrap yard, at a couple of cents a pound, by the truck load. It grieves me to admit that, but it is the truth.

Having all those "non-Africa bikes created a need for a full time operation and that, too, came at my suggestion. Nothing formal, at first, but the group recognized the need and opportunity for a year round bicycle salvage and sharing service. Unlike other B4H chapters, we, in Thunder Bay, operate year round, collecting bikes, preparing them for shipment to Africa, rebuilding them for domestic release, sorting parts, running fund raising events and such. The result, according to BEN - the Bicycle Empowerment Network in Namibia, is that Thunder Bay sends the most and best quality shipments, of all the chapters on the planet. Our shipments were so impressive that the head guy, from our catch group in Namibia, came to see how we do it. I ramble...

Things have changed, since I began my work with Bicycles for Humanity, several years ago. The bikes we used to throw away, are now worth something, not just abroad but locally, also. Most of those bikes(Ten Speeds, Roadsters, Full Suspension and Antiques) are being sold to fund the B4H shipments to Africa. A single shipment (500 bicycles and parts from another few hundred) costs up $10,000.00 CND, at this time. Our ninth shipment goes out next month, for a total of $90,000.00 that we have earned through various means, in the past few years.

We have no corporate sponsors, or anything like that. As already mentioned, Pancake Breakfasts, Tag Days standing outside Canadian Tire, bicycle sales(domestic and bulk), and charitable fund raisers shared with other groups, all contribute to our coffers.

I still do ask for the odd donated bicycle, but through the same avenues as any other volunteer. So far this year, the take is zero. If something exceptional is donated or found, such as a 1971 Masi Gran Criterium or a 1973 Raleigh International, I will be standing at the head of the list, asking for the bicycle and pay for it using the hundreds of hours spent, each year, volunteering my time as payment for the bike. And all with the permission of the B4H-TB governing body.

In conclusion to the original question "Did it bother your sense of ethics to keep for yourself the things that were donated in the belief that they would go to the poor?" No, it did not. But I do see the conflict of interest now, with the way things have changed in Thunder Bay and the vintage bicycle scene. However, I can still earn a bicycle by volunteering my time and I volunteer lots. I can still find bikes on my own, and I do find a lot.

There are many ways for me to get bikes. The ones I find, on my own and that interest me, I keep. The rest, about 200 annually, I donate to Bicycles for Humanity and/or tuck aside for a while so that I can do a photo shoot, hoping to use the pictures on my website for anyone to view.

How do I feel about what I do? Pretty darn good and do I have an ethics problem? You bet! I have been accused, many times, of being too honest.

LeicaLad 

+1,000

Absolutely!

Amesja

+1 randyjawa

Well said, although you didn't need to (or at least shouldn't have had to) say it!

4Rings6Stars

Three cheers for Randy.

It's terrible that he has to explain himself like this every few months (I've seen him do it a number of times) when he does so much good and helps so many people, both through his B4H work and his webisite.

However, I do understand that at first glance, it could look shady.