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Old 11-29-18, 11:52 PM
  #826  
cdstheboss
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Tommasini

Originally Posted by Kevindale View Post
Wow, you have a hell of a collection! Here's what I concluded so far - when there is a 2-number combo, usually it's consistent with year-month, so your marble blue ('76') could be July 1987. And, when there is both a 2-number combo and a 3 number combo, the 3-number combo seems to mean something else (and I cannot see a pattern for these 3-number combos). I think your marble red is actually made May 1988, which is consistent with the marble paint style not being introduced until 1987.

When there is only a 3-number combo, or two 3-number combos, usually it seems consistent with year-month-month, so the two of yours with '711' could be Nov. 1987 (with the first marble white having one of those mystery 3-number combos: '190').

When letters are present, they often appear consistent with the paint style or color (e.g., MR for marble rosa, B for blue). Your bike with 'AF' is another head scratcher, while your red marble bike fits nicely.

I have seen a couple of bikes that I think were sold in Europe but were stamped with 'US'. Not common, and they may have been bought in the US and moved with their owner overseas, though yours seems to go against that latter possibility. And of course there are mid-80s and late-80s Tommasinis sold in the US that didn't have the 'US' stamping, though many (most?) seem to.

Do you have photos of them anywhere? I'd love to know if they have pump pegs, how many sets of bottle bosses, what kind of rear brake bridge, lugs, seat stay caps, etc.

Thank you Kevindale, appreciate your quick reply. I've taken a few pics of the brake bridges and noted number of bottle cage mounts and whether there are pump pegs or not. I'm not allowed to post pics yet, not enough posts, but we have a site in progress, google vintageretro.club
which shows some of the bikes of collectors here in South Africa. I'm hoping the pics of my Tommos will be up in the next week or so.

But here is some information:
Marble white - 190 711 has 1 x pump peg and 1 x bottle cage mount
Marble Red - US85 MR 1 x pump peg and 2 x bottle cage mounts
Marble blue - 76 121 no pump peg, 1 x bottle cage mount
Marble white - 711 AF no pump peg, 1 x bottle cage mount


THE TWO MARBLE WHITE FRAMES HAVE THE SAME BRAKE BRIDGE, SO i'VE ONLY UPLOADED THE ONE.
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Old 11-30-18, 02:50 AM
  #827  
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I have a Premier, Racing Alloy and GDR2 carbon also, but these are not classics, obviously. I ride the carbon when I like to pretend I'm still an athlete!!!

Building my post count.
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Old 12-03-18, 06:47 AM
  #828  
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I've posted some pictures on bikehub south africa, which is co.za.

Please look for the thread pure-italian-stallionism-tommasini

I'm HeyYou on bikehub, so you can identify my Tommos, from page 3.
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Old 12-03-18, 06:48 AM
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I have 10 posts now, maybe I can post the link:

https://www.bikehub.co.za/topic/1715...mmasini/page-3
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Old 12-05-18, 04:10 AM
  #830  
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I also have a Tommo MTB, which I've tentatively aged at early 80s, though I'm not sure if Tommasini were making MTB frames that early. Only one number on the bottom bracket '0'. The cable guides are above the BB and there's only one water bottle cage mount. I've occasionally seen other Tommo MTBs on eBay, but nothing as old as mine. Anyone any idea of 'real' age and what components would it have had????

Tubing is Oria MTB

I live on a farm, so pardon the background!!!!

Last edited by cdstheboss; 12-05-18 at 04:11 AM. Reason: add tubing spec
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Old 12-05-18, 01:24 PM
  #831  
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Originally Posted by cdstheboss View Post

I also have a Tommo MTB, which I've tentatively aged at early 80s, though I'm not sure if Tommasini were making MTB frames that early. Only one number on the bottom bracket '0'. The cable guides are above the BB and there's only one water bottle cage mount. I've occasionally seen other Tommo MTBs on eBay, but nothing as old as mine. Anyone any idea of 'real' age and what components would it have had????

Tubing is Oria MTB

I live on a farm, so pardon the background!!!!
I haven't collected info on Tommasini mountain bikes, mostly because I see them so infrequently, and it's not a particular interest of mine. There aren't any MTB shown in the '85 (approx) Tommasini catalogue, while 2 are shown in the subsequent catalogue that (I think) dates to 1990-91. Those bikes have unicrown forks, below the BB cable routing, and used either Cromor or Max tubing. Your bike has the graphics c/w 1984-1991, so I don't think it is early '80s. On the road bikes the gear cable routing above the BB went away in 81, so I wonder if there was a reason why such braze-ons would be used on a MTB a few years after that.
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Old 12-05-18, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevindale View Post
....On the road bikes the gear cable routing above the BB went away in 81, so I wonder if there was a reason why such braze-ons would be used on a MTB a few years after that.

In this particular case, cable routing over the BB shell is necessitated by the kickstand plate that functions as a chain stay bridge. If a kickstand were installed, it could interfere with the cables. The presence of such a plate raises other questions.
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Old 12-06-18, 01:04 PM
  #833  
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1996(?) Tecno. Ultegra cranks and brakes and hubs, but Campag Veloce 9 speed Veloce shifters. Shifts great!
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Old 12-07-18, 12:43 PM
  #834  
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Nothing about that MTB displays any of Tommasini's quality of workmanship. My bet is that's a repaint/misrepresentation.

DD
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Old 12-10-18, 12:58 AM
  #835  
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Tommasini

Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Nothing about that MTB displays any of Tommasini's quality of workmanship. My bet is that's a repaint/misrepresentation.

DD
You could well be right! I've checked the frame over and the only things suggesting Tommasini are the decals and the Italian BB!!!
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Old 12-10-18, 01:01 AM
  #836  
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Thank you for the comments on the Tommo MTB Kevindale, T-Mar and Drillium.

I'll send pics and questions to the factory and see what replies I get.
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Old 12-13-18, 08:32 AM
  #837  
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Late '70s Rescue help please

I have an expensive and sometimes unpleasant compunction to rescue fine old Italians (and one Ironman) frames and then selling them at a loss. This is my most resent rescue from campus trashing, total neglect and/or fixie hell. The brake cable bosses suggest to me late 70s but I do not think I have seen air forks before mid 80s. Stripped enough paint to see no polished chrome on the frame or rust (paint primer was red rust color) but in AZ this is common. I stripped the fork and there is a lot of missing chrome and just as you see in the second picture where the campy DO shows no quick release marks toward the back where the chrome has filled the Brev. Campy stamp I see this on the Brev Campy fork ends as well leading me to believe this frame and fork were re-chromed. . Fork also has less rake than the Tommasini fork next to it. No sign of front end damage to the frame needed to replace the fork and it rode straight before I stripped it.
Even with the near complete DA 7400 8 speed groupset that came with it this will be a loss, I get a good price with my local frame builder for decent paint but have been unhappy with local chroming quality.
Help with dating and any concerns or suggestions appreciated, anyone re-chromed a re-chrome? Suggestions for decals?





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Old 12-13-18, 09:18 AM
  #838  
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I agree that this looks to have been rechromed. Don't be fooled by the TT cable guides - these were used on Prestige and Racing models (and I think some Super Prestige, I'll have to double check), along side internal routing, through the 1980s.

The seat stay caps and T lugs both say 82 at the oldest, I think. The pump peg points more to at least 1985, though I'll have to check my database to see if there were examples where it might have been a special order thing before that. They became standard on US-bound Tommasinis from 1986 on.

You didn't mention if the steerer tube has rifling - I imagine it does. You can also check the bottom of the seat tube for the rifling of SLX, which I doubt you'll find. Without checking the spreadsheet I'm putting together, my bet is this is a SL tubed Prestige from the mid-80s. I'm also finding that in the first years that the Super Prestige was offered, they were often made with SL and not SLX. The SL Super Prestige bikes usually had "aero" rear brake bridges - this example looks like the T-embossed-cube-with-a-shaped-tube brake bridge (boy that's an unwieldy descriptor) that usually was found on Prestige models (and some Racing models). I assume you can't discern any serial numbers under the BB, right?

I'll check also for that BB style. That may help narrow down the date range a bit more. So for now, my bet right now is a Prestige from 85-86 to maybe 1988.
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Old 12-13-18, 09:58 AM
  #839  
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Tommasini will re chrome and paint that frame for you at a very reasonable price. Plus the euro is only 13% more then the dollar so its kind of a bargain at this point. I am having my brother send a badly repainted frame to them and I think the costs to strip and repaint was around 240-280 euro plus the cost of shipping.
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Old 12-13-18, 12:08 PM
  #840  
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Just looked through my data, and it's pretty much as I said above (likely Prestige, from 85 to 88). However, I have documented a couple of Tommasini Racing models from 86-88, which also share these characteristics (assuming this bike is SL tubing). I've been puzzled why Tommasini was selling 'Racing' and 'Prestige' models that seem identical at the same time (and I should note that Tommasini also sold bikes with the 'Racing' label on the top tube that were made with Cromor, and Oria, and which also had some more cost efficient elements, like simplified seat stay caps, non-AiR forks, non-1010B dropouts, etc). My best guess is that these bikes were not completely chromed under the paint, so save a bit on the cost, and to make them lighter. On that note, the two Racing examples I've seen that look just like Prestige models were both specifically ordered for racing.

It's intriguing that this bike was "rechromed." Perhaps it wasn't chromed originally, and hence rusted, leading a previous owner to strip it and have it chromed, therefore leading to the crappy chrome job it now wears. If as you strip the bike it becomes apparent that it likely wasn't originally fully chromed, then I'll amend my best guess to it being a Racing model from 85-88. (Note, I have no idea if one can tell if a bike was chromed a second time -- perhaps someone can weigh in on that).

And, indeed, if the Tommasini shop will repaint the bike for anything close to that price, do it! I'm stunned it could be so cheap.
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Old 12-13-18, 01:02 PM
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Unless they were aftermarket modifications, the pump peg and dual bottle boss sets indicate no earlier than late 1980s. During this period, the Prestige had a front derailleur hanger, so the absence of one narrows it down to a Tretubi or Racing. OEM chrome on the rear dropout flats would point towards a Racing, which would be confirmed by the presence of helical ridges inside the bottom of the fork's steerer tube.
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Old 12-13-18, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevindale View Post
Just looked through my data, and it's pretty much as I said above (likely Prestige, from 85 to 88). However, I have documented a couple of Tommasini Racing models from 86-88, which also share these characteristics (assuming this bike is SL tubing). I've been puzzled why Tommasini was selling 'Racing' and 'Prestige' models that seem identical at the same time (and I should note that Tommasini also sold bikes with the 'Racing' label on the top tube that were made with Cromor, and Oria, and which also had some more cost efficient elements, like simplified seat stay caps, non-AiR forks, non-1010B dropouts, etc). My best guess is that these bikes were not completely chromed under the paint, so save a bit on the cost, and to make them lighter. On that note, the two Racing examples I've seen that look just like Prestige models were both specifically ordered for racing.

It's intriguing that this bike was "rechromed." Perhaps it wasn't chromed originally, and hence rusted, leading a previous owner to strip it and have it chromed, therefore leading to the crappy chrome job it now wears. If as you strip the bike it becomes apparent that it likely wasn't originally fully chromed, then I'll amend my best guess to it being a Racing model from 85-88. (Note, I have no idea if one can tell if a bike was chromed a second time -- perhaps someone can weigh in on that).

And, indeed, if the Tommasini shop will repaint the bike for anything close to that price, do it! I'm stunned it could be so cheap.


I was stunned too at that price, so I double checked with Barbara and she confirmed that that was the correct price. Now its one color, but hey, factory finish is priceless. Especially when you get the frame back with the documentation.
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Old 12-13-18, 03:02 PM
  #843  
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
Unless they were aftermarket modifications, the pump peg and dual bottle boss sets indicate no earlier than late 1980s. During this period, the Prestige had a front derailleur hanger, so the absence of one narrows it down to a Tretubi or Racing. OEM chrome on the rear dropout flats would point towards a Racing, which would be confirmed by the presence of helical ridges inside the bottom of the fork's steerer tube.
I know I am disagreeing with T-Mar at my peril (by which I mean his knowledge far out strips mine, and most of what I know about Tommasinis comes from him), but I think Tommasini was doing dual sets of bottle bosses as early as 1982. My own bike has two sets (probably from 83, but possibly from 82) and I've seen several other examples that I can reliably date to 1982 with two sets. For the missing FD tab, since this is a rechromed/repainted bike, I considered that it might have been taken off. Stripping the paint in that section may be revealing. Also, I've documented two Prestige bikes that I'm fairly certain have original paint/decals, but which lack FD tabs. One was sold in Belgium, and had a few other unusual features for a Prestige, but the other was a US bike. That's a distinct minority, but they appear to be out there (I assume they were ordered that way).

Of the Racing models from the 80s I've documented, 5 of 7 have FD tabs. The build elements on the Racing bikes are all over the place, but there are two that I've seen that definitely have Campagnolo 1010/B dropouts, and both also have an FD tab (the others have DOs that are either unmarked, or made by Gipiemme, or I don't have that info). BTW, I promise to share this Tommasini database soon. It's up to over 200 bikes, all from the 70s to the early 90s. I need a few days off from work to get it into shape.

And @Celloplus , if I'd have know how cheap an official Tommasini repaint was, I would have brought mine over with me to Amsterdam and used it as an excuse to take a visit to Grosetto! [deep sigh]

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Old 12-13-18, 04:53 PM
  #844  
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Much appreciated, gents

Sorry I forgot the brake bridge photo, I know better. No rifling anywhere, I will strip the FD area and post, Red Rose Imports quoted me $750 to have Tommassini apply a single color and decals (which Tommasini will not sell) a few years ago so I will definitely check directly with Tommisini on the price. Only issue is I need fewer bikes and if this thing rides like my Techno and Diamonte I will be up to 18!
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Old 12-13-18, 07:20 PM
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You’re gonna be up to 18.
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Old 12-14-18, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by easyupbug View Post
Sorry I forgot the brake bridge photo, I know better. No rifling anywhere, I will strip the FD area and post, Red Rose Imports quoted me $750 to have Tommassini apply a single color and decals (which Tommasini will not sell) a few years ago so I will definitely check directly with Tommisini on the price. Only issue is I need fewer bikes and if this thing rides like my Techno and Diamonte I will be up to 18!
I could tell from the photo of the entire frame that this was very likely the brake bridge you had. This shows up on a very few Super Prestige, many Prestige, and many Racing models. I haven't seen any Tommasinis that were definitely Tretubi, so I can't speak to that.

So if no rifling in the steerer tube, then T-Mar's call of a Tretubi sounds correct. Could it also be Oria? I've seen a couple of Racing and a couple of Prestige models from the mid-late 80s with Oria. Or Cromor? What size seat post does it take (sorry if you mentioned this).
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Old 12-14-18, 09:55 AM
  #847  
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Thanks again

Originally Posted by Kevindale View Post
What size seat post does it take (sorry if you mentioned this).
A 27.2 fits typically and to belabor the point with my Mitutoyo telescoping gages and calipers I got 27.3mm ST I.D. No sign of FD boss after stripping.

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Old 12-14-18, 04:59 PM
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I contacted Tommisini for paint and chroming and they referred me to Red Rose Imports again. Red Rose quoted $700 for paint/decals and $100 for the fork plus shipping to and from them in PA.
Used the telescoping gage and repeatedly measured the ST ID which is difficult to do accurately and got a 1.0 mm wall thickness, so I assumed Cromor.
I then stripped more paint to be sure there was no repairs, maybe 1/2 the area and weighed the frame on three different scales, the last a calibrated lab scale, and it showed 1822g. which I find hard to believe for a 57.5 c/c ST and 56.5 TT.

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