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-   -   The Quick & Dirty Technique Thread (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/809967-quick-dirty-technique-thread.html)

randyjawa 04-09-12 05:20 AM


I suspect, Randy, that I work on a lot of bikes that you wouldn't even bother to pull out of that magical Thunder Bay landfill. I don't even sell most of them -- I give them away. But I do think it's a good idea to get those homely bikes SAFE and back on the road.
Actually, I work on lots and lots and lots of entry level bicycles. Hundreds a year and you are bang on the money - most of them I, personally,would not look two times at - for myself. But all of them are built properly, and triple inspected, before being released to the public.

spurious 04-09-12 05:22 AM

3 in 1 oil for everything. Cheap and cheerful, makes a decent chain and everything else lube. Lithium grease for everything with bearings in it - BBs, Headsets, Hubs etc. My SRAM chain has never had anything else but 3in1 on it and it has over 2000km on it and its still good.

No point buying real expensive lubes when cheaper stuff does the job just as well.

I've a big tub of this that I've had for years.

auchencrow 04-09-12 06:27 AM


Originally Posted by rootboy (Post 14076216)
short cut? what's a short cut?

+1

Taking every flipper right down to the bare bones is the ONLY way to discover issues that might have gone unnoticed.
(Eg., cracks, x-threaded fasteners, pitted bearing surfaces, etc.)

clasher 04-09-12 08:01 AM

Servicing entry-level bikes is a really good to practise mechanical skills... the only way to learn those is by actually doing, so I do it on bikes that I keep or sell. I don't really see working on low-end bikes as an expense anyway... bicycle mechanic school is 1700$ here for an 11-day course. I'm not saying that fixing up a few old beaters will give you the same education but one must crawl before they can run. The other thing going for me is that I have ****-all else to do besides pontificating on the internet ;)

Grand Bois 04-09-12 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by bigbossman (Post 14075880)
If a bike is worth getting back in the road, it is worth doing it right. Every bike I've ever flipped (with a VERY few notable exceptions) has been torn down to the frame-set and rebuilt. It is the only way to make an old, neglected bike safe to ride.

I would not give away or sell any bike that has not been properly overhauled.

Absolutely!

noglider 04-09-12 11:10 AM

When removing a pronged freewheel, using a skewer is not a good idea. It is absolutely necessary. It's foolish not to do it.

And since I do have a bench vise, I always use it to remove a freewheel. Other methods are too much trouble compared with using the vise.

dddd 04-09-12 07:44 PM

Most of the entry-level bikes I sell are picked up by flippers, who buy two at a time and take them 50 miles away to their college town.

After negotiating with some of these guys and gals, and letting them know what I've done and how much I want, I am told not to bother with things like bb teardowns and hub rebuilds.
Who am I to argue? They won't give me an extra dime for doing it because their buyer doesn't expect or demand it.
The buyer is happy to play gambler on the lifespan of the bb just as I sometimes am (on the bikes that I ride around here for all my short trips).
It's not a big deal since those repairs don't come up that often and are not catastrophic out on the road.

I'll grease the bearings proper for any expected high-mileage use on my own, or for a sporting buyer who's spending a few hundred. Bikes that are to be ridden around town don't get that treatment unless the bearing needs to come apart for repair issues like a broken axle or badly pitted bearing that is noticeably rough.
Another thing is that the parts on my better racing bikes can be much more expensive or hard to find, and so greasing is more worthwhile, but for example I'll still confidently take a few longer rides on an oiled 1970's Dura-Ace bottom bracket once I've at least verified roughly correct adjustment.

I'll say it again though, that all the cables should look straight and work properly, a little better than new often isn't too hard to achieve even when using recycled cabling.

Most riders would say that the bikes I sell ride like new or better than new, something that's not true of probably 90% of the bikes being sold by competing CraigsListers.

wrk101 04-09-12 07:56 PM


Originally Posted by dddd (Post 14075987)

So, as an example, if the bike has canti brakes, you're saying to un-screw all 4 brake arms from the frame?

I never do this since oil applied under the bolt washers goes straight into the pivot sleeve. Removing those threadlocked bolts takes much time and effort, but what is gained?

Likewise, I usually don't remove functioning derailers.


Yes, I remove all canti brakes from the studs, both for a thorough cleaning of the arms and the posts, and to lightly grease the posts.

Yes, I remove all derailleurs for the same reason. They go into my ultrasonic cleaner, I grease jockey wheels, and lube all springs (triflow).

I take bikes down to the bare frame, inspect everything, and build them back up.

My bikes rarely go to resellers, they go to end users, most of whom are newbs on bikes.

And I rely a lot on repeat customers and referrals. So even though a newb buyer may not realize/appreciate the extra work that went into the bike, the bike will work a lot better for them. One recent repeat customer just gave me two spare bikes she had that needed work (one a nice Pug mixte). Bike karma is a good thing.

Metacortex 04-09-12 08:13 PM


Originally Posted by wrk101 (Post 14079815)
I remove all derailleurs for the same reason. They go into my ultrasonic cleaner...

This sounds interesting, please elaborate.

02Pilot 04-09-12 09:42 PM

A ball-joint separator (like this: linky ) makes removing cotter pins a breeze. Apply moderate tension; if it doesn't pop out, hit the crank arm with a torch for a bit, and out it comes.

Old chain-drive garage door openers are a great source for miles of basically new chain (most of the ones I've seen are KMC).

dddd 04-10-12 01:15 AM

Thanks for the link for that puller. I have a Harbor Freight store just down the hill that makes for a good 2-1/2 hour round-trip ride. I have never had an easy time with cotters, so drilling has been the standard procedure for crank removal.

I haven't tried ultrasonic. I wonder if these cleaners actively clean the inside of mechanisms like the derailer spring pivot barrels or just the outside.
Would an abrasive added to the ultrasonic bath water give a polished finish?
I've seen parts come back from the vapor-degreasing shop that were stunningly clean.

3alarmer 04-10-12 01:32 AM


3speed 04-10-12 02:46 AM

I'm Really glad to see a number of you responding as I was planning to. It's you guys who keep me on this forum and help me keep a little faith in humanity.

As someone else pointed out, dumping some WD-40 into a headset* might get it somewhat smooth again, but for how long? Long enough to get the bike into someone else's hands and the money into yours? And either them then having to spend more money to have someone do the job right, or the bike end up in a land fill when they decide they would have been better off buying a new bike(and Hopefully not another crappy one from x-mart). I'd rather someone have a decent bike to ride, keep usable bikes on the road, and help keep stuff out of the landfill.

*Not to mention the pollution involved in just blasting aerosols and using excessive amounts of solvents just because it's quicker and easier. Cleaning out a little old grease and applying a little new is much better for everyone and everything, now and especially in the future.

noglider 04-10-12 06:03 AM

How does the ball joint puller push (or pull?) fitters out? I can't picture it.

02Pilot 04-10-12 06:59 AM

Loosen the nut retaining the cotter (I've never had a problem with removing it completely, but leaving it on is probably best practice). Fit the separator so that the single tip is pressing squarely on the threaded end of the cotter, making sure that the two tips of the forked tip are clear of the other end of the cotter and square on the crank arm. Apply tension by tightening the bolt, making sure everything stays squared up. With enough pressure this will pop the cotter by itself, but since steel crank arms can take plenty of heat, it's usually just easier to tighten it up and hit it with a torch.

auchencrow 04-10-12 07:20 AM


Originally Posted by dddd (Post 14080687)
.....

I haven't tried ultrasonic. I wonder if these cleaners actively clean the inside of mechanisms like the derailer spring pivot barrels or just the outside.
....


Ultrasonic has pretty much replaced the use of agressive solvents like trichlor in industrial applications, and is used to clean valve bodies, gun parts, and medical devices, because it is so effective at cleaning hard to reach areas.


Here is a description of how Ultrasonic cleans, from Miraclean dot com:

Cleaning takes place when high frequency bursts of ultrasonic energy are applied to a heated liquid cleaning solution that surrounds the parts. This energy produces a three-dimensional wave pattern of alternating positive and negative pressure areas within a cleaning tank. The alternating pattern creates bubbles during periods of negative pressure and implodes them during periods of positive pressure in a phenomenon known as “cavitation.” The implosion creates a microjet action that penetrates and cleans areas impossible to reach with brushes, sprays or dips.

dddd 04-10-12 08:22 AM

Is there some level of device power required to maintain the ultrasonic action in a heavily surrounded assembly of considerable mass, like a derailer?
Somehow I'm not sure if a garden-variety unit would accomplish this.

auchencrow 04-10-12 10:04 AM


Originally Posted by dddd (Post 14081074)
Is there some level of device power required to maintain the ultrasonic action in a heavily surrounded assembly of considerable mass, like a derailer?
Somehow I'm not sure if a garden-variety unit would accomplish this.

Hi dddd - It seems like the garden variety sold at HF satisfies most users,, but I can't explain the technicalities beyond what was referenced in the Miraclean site.

gaucho777 04-10-12 10:08 AM

Some ultrasonic units also have a heat feature, which improves the cleaning effectiveness. The units only need to be run a few minutes. For parts with nasty tight spaces, I think just a little extra time is sufficient. I got mine on craiglist.

rootboy 04-10-12 10:08 AM

"Cleaning takes place when high frequency bursts of ultrasonic energy are applied to a heated liquid cleaning solution that surrounds the parts. This energy produces a three-dimensional wave pattern of alternating positive and negative pressure areas within a cleaning tank. The alternating pattern creates bubbles during periods of negative pressure and implodes them during periods of positive pressure in a phenomenon known as “cavitation.” "

Dang. That sounds highly impressive. I think this is what happened to my brain during experiments in the early 70's.

wrk101 04-10-12 10:54 AM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 14081407)
Some ultrasonic units also have a heat feature, which improves the cleaning effectiveness. The units only need to be run a few minutes. For parts with nasty tight spaces, I think just a little extra time is sufficient. I got mine on craiglist.

+1 The HF unit I picked up on sale for about $60 has a heating feature. I use the 2.5L model. Cheaper units are too small to be useful on bike stuff. Its on sale right now for $75. Take a 20% off coupon with you, and that gets the price doqwn to $60. Be sure to take a coupone for a free item with you as well.\

While you are there, be sure to pick up a digital caliper too.

No HF coupon? Go to slickdeals.com and they have all of them.

One caution with the Ultra Sonic cleaner. Don't use Simple Green in there, as it will remove the anodizing and lettering off your nicer parts, like RDs (ask me how I know). Use something mild, like Dawn dish washing detergent or similar.

dddd 04-10-12 05:04 PM

Thanks a lot for the info. I'm planning a trip down the hill as I write this.

I will second the advice about Simple Green, as even steel parts like sprockets or derailer springs will become crumbly if left sitting in it, and I sure wouldn't want any corrosive ionic liquid left trapped in any kind of mechanical assembly.

I'm still wondering if adding abrasives to an ultrasonic bath would give a polishing effect to metal parts.

And thanks also for the coupon source!

kc0yef 04-10-12 05:51 PM


Originally Posted by rootboy (Post 14076216)
short cut? what's a short cut?

That's how we get our hair cut in the military

brianinc-ville 04-10-12 09:54 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 14080964)
How does the ball joint puller push (or pull?) fitters out? I can't picture it.

I used one of those for a while, and though it did get the job done, it often left marks on the crank. I finally paid up for the BikeSmith cotter tool and have been much happier. OTOH, if anybody wants the ball joint puller I'm no longer using, just let me know.

SteveSGP 04-11-12 07:54 AM

No quick and dirty tricks here, lots of tricks but I'm of the mind that if I can't do it right I'm not doing it at all.

I don't clean or re-use chains unless the chain looks virtually new to begin with, virtually every bike I do gets completely torn down, cleaned, greased, adjusted, new chain, brake pads, cables, housings, bar wrap etc.

Chemicals are Simple Green, Acid bath, PB Blaster, WD-40, Naval Jelly, Turtle Wax chrome polish and I use Park tools grease on everything I'm selling and Phil Wood on my keepers.

When I first started doing this I tried a few shortcuts but it left me with a nagging conscience so I decided on my current course of action.

I have had a few bikes come through that I just didn't want to work on and in those cases I advertise them "as is" or needs work and sell them dirt cheap or free.


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