Possible Motobecane, need help identifying frame
 

I recently bought an old bike that has had some issues with its previous owners...one decided to strip the frame of all forms of ID, so I have really no idea what the manufacturer or model of the frame is. However, it was painted with the head badge on, and then the badge was removed, so I can say that the badge is a square, 3 cm on each side. From what I have been able to decipher from countless badge galleries, Motobecane is the only brand that used a square badge of that size and was done so in the late 70s. The serial number is stamped on the bottom bracket, 10628020, with the letters WTE stamped separately. The frame is 56 cm. One thing that kind of irks me is that there are no cable guides on the downtube or chain stay for a shifter cable. The top tube has guides for the rear brake, but that is all. If anyone can help me identify this frame, it would be much appreciated! I included some pictures of some of the details of the frame in hopes that this helps.

the serial for my '75/76 moto gr is ten digits, like so: '1234 567 890.' the built in brazed cable guides on the top tube should help you rule out early/mid 70's models. the headset/steerer threading might help you identify it as french. seems to have a kickstand plate, which will rule out high end models. and are the drops stamped by the maker? wish i could help you more as i hope you're trying to restore the bike...

Panasonic had a square headbadge in the 1970s, Univega did at one time as well. That chain stay brace/side stand mount is a sign of an entry level bike (stamped plate). A lot of bikes from that era had cable clamps, rather than braze ons. Motobecane loved Swiss bb, if you have one, it will be easy to spot.

Thanks for the insight there. I'm pretty young in my biking enthusiasm so I am not completely sure how to ID whether or not the bb is Swiss. Are there any major things that stand out that separate that from any other style of bracket?

Yeah I do want to restore it to as close to original as I can get it. Unfortunately a lot of the components have been replaced; you can see that it has bee converted to single speed so no shifting components there to help ID anything and the stem and handlebars seem to have been replaced as well. This will take a lot of work to get it back to its original form. And I'm assuming that although there is no standard for bicycle serial numbers, many companies would have followed a pattern, so as your moto is 10-digit 4-3-3 formation and mine is all bunched together 8 digits, it is probably a safe bet to rule out motobecane as the manufacturer?

I'm not ready to rule out it being a Moto but the evidence of it being one is a bit slim at the moment. I have a '79 Super Mirage that I might be able to see any commonalities, will check later today.

French is normal thread both sides (no left hand on drive side, like you find on modern british standard). Swiss is left hand thread on drive side, 35.0 x 1.0 marked.

British standard is 1.37 x 24 thread (usually marked).

Clipped from Sheldon's site:

Many Swiss bikes, and French bikes sold in the late 1970s/early '80s (especially Motobécanes and later Peugeots) used the now-obsolete Swiss bottom-bracket threading:
35 mm x 1mm (1.378" x 25.4 TPI), left-hand-threaded fixed cup (right side), right-hand-threaded adjustable cup (left side.)
The diameter and thread pitch are the same as French, but the Swiss fixed (right side) cup has a left-hand thread.

It's also possible that cable guides were removed when it was converted/painted.

It might be the picture angle, but check that fork to see if it is bent. The imaginary line on the fork blade and front brake don't seem to jive with the headtube very well.

I disagree, given that the fork is turned. The gap between the top of the fork crown and bottom of the headtube looks very consistent - a much better way to judge with the fork turned. Always worth checking, of course.

Alright thanks for the info of the bb threading styles. I'll see what I can find out later today when I get home. And I'll check the fork for possible bending and post a picture with it straight to get a better idea. Like I said, I'm pretty much a novice at this stuff and although I do love it, my ability to judge these things isn't quite yet what it should be. But I'll get there in time! due ruote, do you think there would be evidence of the cable guides being removed even with it painted over? As wrk101 said, clamps are more common and leave no evidence behind, but just in case...

Here is the headbadge on my '79 Moto Super Mirage.....
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=246180

It looks Japanese made, and my first guess before reading any text on this thread was Panasonic.

Ah well I can rule out the 79 Super Mirage then haha if I've got a Moto, the badge would be of the form of this one I have pictured. The spot on the paint is a perfect square, not even a round corner. And I am afraid the front fork is a little bent back...I've got a picture of it too but I'm pretty sure its safe to say it will need to be replaced :/http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=246197http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=246196

you might be able to have the blade(s) straightened and save that fork. BTW, if you pull the fork it may have something stamped on the steerer to help solve the mystery. I think Miyata (and Univega) might have used a similar forkcrown on some low-to-mid frames...it probably had stem shifters.