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Assistance for Mystery Frame ID and Repair Recommendations

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Assistance for Mystery Frame ID and Repair Recommendations

Old 04-22-12, 11:23 PM
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23skidoo
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Assistance for Mystery Frame ID and Repair Recommendations

I posted this ugly duckling several weeks ago in the junker colors but want to refresh my hope for ID assistance and some shared frame repair experiences and recommendations. It's been stripped and dipped with some kind of surface stabilizer so it doesn't rust out while I'm trying to figure out what to do. I've never seen this style of lugs and think the combination of long point, window and scrollwork is very pretty. It's had a front-end collision at some point with some subtle but visible deformation of the tubes directly behind the lugs and the fork looks goofy on the left blade to me. I'd like to know what you think. I recall discussions on head tube straightening tools--VAR, Park, something a member from Florida rigged??--and wonder whether this would be repairable at that level or require the services of a frame builder. If the latter, I'd love to hear any experiences or recommendations. First some pics of the frame and a few closeups.








The fork.



https://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/IMG_0246.jpg

https://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/IMG_0239.jpg

https://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...t/IMG_0247.jpg


Head tube damage is primarily visible on the underside of both tubes but slightly more pronounced on the down tube, appearing as a slight swell in an arc around the lug point and what looks like some dishing at the tip of the lug; others with more sensitive fingers and eyes called out a ripple though the window of the top tube lug. Somebody rode it in this condition for some time.







More pics, much bigger images here: https://s270.photobucket.com/albums/j...%20and%20bent/
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Old 04-22-12, 11:35 PM
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Looks to be Canadian mid 80's Bridgstone or Raliegh.
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Old 04-23-12, 12:04 AM
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Looks like someone did a front ender with this frame. I'd suggest having someone like a frame builder check the alignment of the forks and frame. The head tube angle is probably off by a degree or two. The bike will handle a WHOLE LOT better after alignment.

Chas. verktyg
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Old 04-23-12, 01:30 AM
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Bocama Lugs
looks like 79-1982 era.

questions- is it reynolds tubing?
-if the frame was not badly sandblasted the tubes are stamped reynolds
around the top of the fork blade tubes,
the fork stem tube,
on the seat tube maybe 5 inches up,
I have no idea if Columbus tubing is marked.

whos dropouts-campy or gippime?

very sweet frame- got any number on her BB?

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/107...7626539453043/

Last edited by puchfinnland; 04-23-12 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 04-23-12, 09:15 PM
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Thanks for the comments. Nice to see you here verktyg, you always have a good comment to make.

zukahn1 it could well be a Canadian build but there are no real identifiers to stand out.

puchfinnland the frame was not sandblasted, but chemically stripped and dipped and the only identifying mark I can find anywhere on the frame is the Columbus dove stamped into the steerer tube. The dropouts are Campy and the rear drive side is tapped and threaded for a Porta Catena chain hanger. The lugs do look very similar to Bocama Competition three-window version and it may be that the scroll work was hand-filed. I have a Gitane Interclub with similar Bocama window lugs and they are stamped with a BCM 73. The frame/fork weigh 2580g/5.7# which speaks to top-quality tubing IMO.
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Old 04-23-12, 09:52 PM
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in addition to the dove there's also rifling in the steerer: clearly a Columbus fork so probably a Columbus frame. The Campy DOs support that (a little) and the portacatena feature plus WB bosses says '78 to early '80s. I've seen something with that style of stay cap (and these are single taper stays, more fashionable with British builders than Italian) but can't recall what name...seems like it was one of those obscure but very highly-regarded builders...but one of them might have left some pantographing.
Hmmm, just looked again: recessed brake bolts? could be as late as mid-80s.
and did you determine BB threading?

Last edited by unworthy1; 04-23-12 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 04-23-12, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
in addition to the dove there's also rifling in the steerer: clearly a Columbus fork so probably a Columbus frame. The Campy DOs support that (a little) and the portacatena feature plus WB bosses says '78 to early '80s. I've seen something with that style of stay cap (and these are single taper stays, more fashionable with British builders than Italian) but can't recall what name...seems like it was one of those obscure but very highly-regarded builders...but one of them might have left some pantographing.
Hmmm, just looked again: recessed brake bolts? could be as late as mid-80s.
and did you determine BB threading?
Stan the BB threading is British, the rear drops have been spread to just shy of 132mm, and the seatpost diameter is 27.2.

Last edited by 23skidoo; 04-24-12 at 12:25 AM. Reason: correct doofus grammar
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Old 04-23-12, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
Thanks for the comments. Nice to see you here verktyg, you always have a good comment to make.
Thanks, you're welcome...

Originally Posted by 23skidoo View Post
...Bocama window lugs and they are stamped with a BCM 73.
BCM is Bocama and the 73 is the head or seat tube angle. They usually matched. At one time Bocama made lugs from 71 to 76. The number of the head tube/down tube lug is the angle too.

There's a lot of nice work on the frame. I'd guess that it was one of the small US custom frame makers from the mid to late 70s.

Chas. verktyg
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Old 04-24-12, 12:24 AM
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Chas, I'm not sure when top tube cable guide braze ons and recessed brake mounting made their respective appearances and became regular features so I can't say for certain but I'd want to add five years to your date estimate. A clearer contrast between the nice work on the frame and a later addition by a less artistic hand are the seat tube bottle mounts which were added later or definitely not brazed by the same person who did the down tube bottle mounts. It's interesting to note the points of the lugs and seatstay caps are sharp enough to draw blood in a careless encounter.
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Old 04-24-12, 11:17 PM
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I have some doubt as to whether this frame has BCM lugs: the BCM Competition 83 lugs with window cutouts look different... note the long bottom spears:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/1070387...@N21/lightbox/
I'm inclined to think the frame is British, and the lugs might be something like Hadens (maybe), but obviously not the super long spear Haden Concorde.
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Old 04-24-12, 11:27 PM
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Looks like the head lug is cracked, with this and bent mains this frame would need a great deal of work to bring it back to 100% and cost would be such that you would only want to do this with a frame of some rarity or collect-ability.

Trying to straighten and reset the frame wouyld likely cause more damage to the head lugs which already appear to be compromised.
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Old 04-24-12, 11:47 PM
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Top tube braze on cable mounting became popular in the early 80's.
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Old 04-24-12, 11:55 PM
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BCM would make lugs any way the manufacturer wanted, and if it is a handmade frame the builder most likely did some handwork on them before using them.

mike
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Old 04-25-12, 10:28 AM
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True that there's plenty of "handwork" evidenced on that seatlug, so the brand of lug can be BCM or any of the several similar "3-window" pattern lugs. I think the seat stay caps (plugs) are Cinelli items, or a Cinelli copy...which also doesn't tell us anything about who built this frame.
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