Record > Super Record (rant)
 

Offered only to be illustrative. It apprears that I might need to make my first "For Sale" post. Earlier, I reported that we had bought a nice 1976 Windsor Pro for my wife to replace her stolen (and beloved) French road bike. Gorgeous, but someone had once substituted Shimano brakes -- which had to go.

I've been watching the "local" Craigslist since the middle of last year and, a few days back a set of Record calipers surfaced and the photo looked nice, offered in the next state over. I asked my wife if she wanted to check it out, she contacted the seller and made arrangements to pick them up at a "midpoint" that still meant 2.5 hours R/T for her (she went alone). She came back late and the brakes looked "funny" but we were both so tired…

Next AM, looking closer, something it very wrong. What I noticed was, versus the ad: (a) more corrosion on the chrome but I think it will clean up (b) Arms do not have the block print on the front, but script on the top of the arms (c) "Acorn" nut is not rounded but more conical (d) no wheel guides (e) There's a cable attached to one of them but that is immaterial. So, I contacted the seller.

The responses appalled me, and they included "It was just a generic photo I don't have a camera what's the prob they r the exact same brakes!" and "if your a half decent mech you can make em work " and here's a real gem: "A windsor pro is hardly a classic no offense , i would understand if you were restoring an italian classic ,Basso , Colnago Scapin ,Cinelli , and you wanted it to be period correct . Good luck". Caveat Emptor! Well, IMHO, they are Dumpster Chow. Options:

(A) Enter the world on on-line reselling, which I had always wanted to avoid. The setting up of accounts, shipping, the scam artists, ugh! I don't mind buying, but have avoided selling (don't look in my basement! :O) Are these even worth anything? I was planning on donating the Shimanos to a good home.
(B) I need to take a look at my "new bike", a 1980 Palo Alto bought off eBay in 1997 IIRC. Pretty sure the brakes are Records, and I'm not emotionally attached to a bike that new. I could install the SR's on that bike and the Records migrate to the Windsor. Are there installation woes ahead? Am I diminishing the Palo Alto?
(C) Heave-ho the SR calipers, crack open a bottle of sangiovese using the Campy corkscrew, and get over it.

Sucks when you get had on CL, sorry that happened to you. Not really much you can do about it.

Post pics of what you got.

It's always a good idea to ask for more pics and further descriptions from the seller just to make sure you are getting exactly what you see in what they originally posted before making any sort of commitment with the seller. I think doing such will just protect BOTH the seller and the buyer in the long run. If the seller is not willing to work with you to get more information, just walk away from the deal and find the stuff somewhere else as it is not a good sign.

Chombi

yeah post pics here and see where it goes. worst case scenario you can practice drillium.

So...are they Campy but something other than Record, like Valentino?

Using a pic of *something else* to sell your goods is pretty crappy. I sometimes see people note that in their CL ads ('my bike is not the one pictured, but just like it only red') which would raise a yellow flag for me at the least...but at least in that case they are open about it.

+ 4 POST PICS.

We'll be able to tell you at least two things as soon as you do. One, what version the brakes are and two, whether or not you have something worth something.

From you description, the arms say late-model Super Record - but that all depends on the type of quick release mechanism, for one.

Depending what you paid for them - and how well they clean up - you could resell them, thereby making your money back.

Oh, and I think you should out the CL seller - Caveat Emptor, indeed!

DD

I presume you mean out him HERE, I'm not CL-savvy but I haven't seen a CL rating system where I could 'ding" him as an unadviseable seller.

Thanks, guys, for the input.

I like the drillium idea but, sadly, not even I could rationalize buying a drill press just for this. Or can I? At the rate my kitchen remodel is going, I could explain it was needed for the cabinet hinges or something.

Being photo-posting-friendly is not among my skills, sorry. What I forgot to mention was that I did a little Google Image searching and found a mate; either these calipers are model 4061 Super Records (1983-1987) or one heck of a copy. Of course, we're talking Campy here and they'd stop the bike just fine but, then again, so would the Shimanos, which is the point after all.

I wasn't thinking of a solution. A gentleman would have responded "Sorry, I hadn't realized the distinction was so important to you, can I drive over tonight for a refund?" It's not really his fault that we don't live down the street from him, and it's my fault there; expecting my wife to make an evaluation on the scene is about as reasonable as asking the UPS driver to check them out. Never again, I assure you.

True, "nothing you can do about it" if the goal is getting my $55 back (cheap IMHO, perhaps a red flag?). Rattling around in the back of my head are other reactions, with other goals: (a) naming names here; some of you are heavy-duty parts buyers and perhaps deserve to know (b) Getting on CL with "For Sale: two Super Record calipers; for sale because [insert name] from [insert town] from right here on CL sold them to me using a picture of a pristine set of Record calipers and like description, with no disclaimers, and now I'm stuck with them. My loss = your gain". Frequest CL purchasers in the area might find that interesting. (c) My wife drove for the handover to his GF's house, I wonder if she'd like to call that GF and ask "after all this, do you honestly think he'll honor any promises he makes to YOU?" (ouch)

Oh, a complication on the stealing of the brakes off my Palo Alto; as reported earlier, one acorn nut is missing off one and I haven't found a replacement yet (heresy: will a Shimano acorn nut fit?)

So what is wrong with the Super Record brakes?
Why is it so important to get the Nuovo record brakes?

My best deals come from lazy sellers. No pics or generic pics, lousy to no description, etc. My advantage is that this nonsense chases away 95% of the possible buyers, so sometimes, I end up with a great deals. But sometimes, it can be a lousy deal too.

Uh, for the same reason others here aren't riding carbon fiber bikes? This is the C&V forum, I just wanted the correct brakes -- everything else on the bike indicates a sympathetic restoration (re-paint aside). These SR calipers look fine, the Shimanos are fine, personally I'd add Mafacs but on most of my bikes I've always used whatever components I felt like. YMMV, of course.

My wife is resisting the idea but I am leaning towards "Getting on CL with "For Sale: two Super Record calipers; for sale because [insert name] from [insert town] from right here on CL sold them to me using a picture of a pristine set of Record calipers and like description, with no disclaimers, and now I'm stuck with them. My loss = your gain"."

It sucks. Move on. Just get some Tektros and go for a ride.

You should have little problem reselling them.

Sounds like a lower model line of calipers from the late 80-early 90s. Sucks when dealing with slimy CL sellers. But +1 on posting pics to assist determining what these are and reselling them to acquire your period correct Nuovo Record calipers.

edit;
just read that these are SR calipers....maybe someone else will be interested in a trade for their NR calipers. A consideration.

A lesson learned....I did similar years ago, sent my wife to buy a Ti mtb frame. She couldn't tell that the frame had repair damage. Seller didn't disclose anything....threw in a set of wheels when she called me first, to sweeten the deal. I discovered the frame is useless....expensive set of used wheels. :notamused:

The only difference between Record and Super Record brakes was the levers, the calipers were identical. Super Record levers were drilled; Record were not. Campagnolo changed from a dome shaped nut to a conical nut and a block font to a script font on the calipers in the early 80s. If your calipers have the cam-type quick release they are Record/Super Record regardless of the font or nut type used on the calipers. If they have the simple open/closed lever type quick release they are a lower model -- Gran Sport, Triomphe, Victory, etc.

Look on velobase.com to see what type of calipers you have. As JohnDThompson said, late Super Record calipers have script logos, as do the Gran Sport, Victory ones (both have conical nuts, but of different types). None of them are bad brakes. As for rust, you can take care of that easily using an oxalic acid bath (but only for chromed or bare steel -- keep aluminum or zinc-plated stuff away from acid). Of course, where rust has formed, it will again, more easily than before it formed in the first place -- so you have to keep such parts oiled or waxed, and out of water.

It always helps to be an educated consumer; but just about everyone here has a "I wuz robbed" story or three.

Tiger,

Okay, I understand that you were looking for something very specific and what you got ain't it. Let me list the features you are looking for to determine exactly what you want.

Campagnolo (Nuovo) Record brakes
"Campagnolo" in block letters
acorn nuts
short reach (?) vs long (normal reach)
allen nut (?) vs hex nutted
dome quick release (?) vs flat quick release

The above it true to an extent.

Super Record brakes at least the ones I very first saw in early 1974 were also short reach calipers. Identifiable by the caliper arms which many need a side to side comparison to see and the small bumper on the back of the caliper arm adjacent to the cable adjuster to help prevent banging into the down tube. On the very very earliest examples there was no "O" ring, a machined alloy adjuster wheel with a conical top and perimeter knurling. Seen again after a brief period much much later on the G.S. calipers.

Late in the Super Record life the "script" logo calipers arrived, the arm shape as seen first on the "Colbalto" brakes quickly developed to be used while the Delta calipers were being "refined". These caliper arms have a different cross section compared to the preceding caliper shape. The Super Record calipers had a conical 2 flat acorn nut. They also came with allen key fixing nuts. The brake shoe holders were alloy with CPSC plastic protection and no longer chromed steel, with stainless hardware, lighter and a bit less finished. These were not made in "normal" reach. ANd I forgot, they used a cute conical acorn nut to secure the cable fixing eccentric and an allen key cable fixing bolt.


The 2.5 hour drive to rendezvous for brakes is just not in my time/value range. My time is way too precious. ebay is confounding from time to time, but as a buyer, very efficient especially for small stuff, complete bikes are more risky.

Correct.

...and the reach does not determine the type.

OP, you didn't get what you expected, which sucks, but CL sucks imo so I avoid it like The Plague.

However, the calipers will probably sell for more than you paid for them, on eBay, so you may make a profit.

Bottom line: (1) CL sucks. (2) Worry about bigger stuff, imo. Spilt milk and all that rot.....

I just looked in the 1985 Campi Cat. and that seems to be the last year they produced S.R. calipers with block lettering and an acorn nut.

Ecrevisse:

Yes on the 1st three criteria, I'll have to measure on reach, no on Allen nut, had not yet developed an opinion of the QR.

BTW, not sure if I mentioned it, I had done a little on-line searching, but I saw a photo of "Model 4061" brakes and those look like a match for what I'm "stuck with". Uh, yeah, I did mention it in a previous post.

Again, all of this is no big deal, we'll keep looking. Probably still going to keep with eBay and CL in the region and only do business face-to-face so no more "surprises".

Move on? Ride a bike? You seem to have wandered into the wrong forum, my friend.