What is/was the order of precedence (in terms of quality) of the Motobecane bicycle line?
I had a Moto Grand Jubile(e), circa 1978, that I lost due to ...(never mind).
I now want to replace it with a bike of the same quality.
I have seen a few advertised on eBay, including a Grand Jubile, but am unfamiliar with what's what today, since I rode my GJ up until 4 years ago.

BTW, I'm not stuck on motor-bacon, it's just that it was hard to beat the overall combination of quality and price at the time. I did customize it a bit, with some Campy derailleurs, sew-up rims with Phil hubs, and bar-end shifters, but it's gone now.
Oh, I also did a custom paint job on it, silver/pewter with black accents and gold filigree on the lugs, plus automobile pinstripes on the tubing. It was really a good looking bike. Alas.
:(

Hey, I recently saw a NICE one of those in a local pawn shop... Hope it wasn't yours. It had a couple of months to go before it could be sold, but whenever I go back to check on it, the place is closed...

Early '70s top model was the Le Champion, next in line either the Grand Record or the Grand Jubilee... All were pretty cool.

Top in the later 1970s would have been the Champion models either Le Champion or Team Champion. These were semi-custom and not readily available. Next was Grand Record and the Jubilee was after that. Behind were the Mirage and Nomade with depending on the year the Grand Touring mixed in there somewhere behind the Jubilee.

I picked up a Jubilee in really nice shape off eBay for something like $80 so a replacement can be had if you're looking.

Today's Moto has nothing in common with the old ones. Moto went out of business in the 80s. The name has been bought by an importing company and the bikes are made in Asia. I understand they're considered good bargains but don't know the hierarchy.

Many would agree that 1970s Motos had some of the best paint and finish available on mass produced bikes which made them stand out from other bikes of otherwise similar quality.

Good luck.

:beer:

I believe the Grand Touring was between the Jubile and Mirage models. I see there are several vintage Motos on eBay at the moment; a couple of nice Mirages and a fair GT.

Well, someone is sure to pull a catalog out and regurgitate the Moto lineups for each year ;) , but the Motobecane Team Chump, aka Team Champion, in Luis Ocana orange, was the pinnacle of the Moto racing bikes in the mid-70's. It had an all Columbus frame/fork with the fork blades cut from the tips for an extra beefy look. Very nice, atypical(for the French) scalloped and filled blade and stay ends, and all Campagnolo Super Record parts. A very sexy French bike executed in the Italian style.

The Le Champion was a more versatile racing design in a lavender color if I recall, second in the Moto lineup. It was all Nouvo Record components.

The Grand Record was next, with a partial Campagnolo group and an all purpose sport frame design. I really thought of the Grand Jubilee as a parallel model to the Grand Record with all French componentry. After these came the Grand Touring, the Jubilee, and later the Sprint Jubilee. The Mirage was the lowest frame in the Moto lineup if I recall correctly. At least I can't remember anything underneath it.

Very nice bikes with lots of personality and style.

Nomade was below the Mirage. I know b/c I owned one bought new about 1977 or so when I was but a young lad. Nomade and Mirage (at least in 1977-78) had the same frameset of hi-ten steel but the Mirage had 2 tone paint and better wheels.

The LBS where I got mine from never carried the GTs that I noticed. Over the years ther were several variations with the Jubilee name. In earlier forms (1975 or so) they were full 531 bikes in black and red and VERY nice.

:beer:

An excellent and concise assessment on the construction and styling on the top end Motos. I agree wholeheartedly. However, based on my recollections and literature, I recall a few differences in the details.

I don't remember any orange Team Champions with Columbus tubing. All the orange versions I've seen were Reynolds 531 or 753. In the late 1970s, it came in blue and those did have Columbus tubing. Also, the samples I've seen have were a Nuovo and Super Record mix, as opposed to straight Super Record. There may have been a year or two before the colour change where they were straight Super record with Columbus tubing, but in general I believe they were Reynolds tubing with a Nuovo and Super Record mix.

The lavender/lilac Le Champion generally came with one or two pieces of non-Campagnolo components, depending on the year. There were several years in the 1970s were they had Stronglight cranksets and/or Universal or Weinmann brakes. However, there were also years where they were full Campagnolo, as you state.

I don't know exactly when the anglicized Jubilee name started to appear, but for the majority of the 1970s, the name was actually Jubile, without the second 'e'. Perhaps it's a trivial point, but the it's an aid in dating these models.

It's hard to establish a heirarchy for the 1970s Motobecanes, as the line-up fluctuated more than others of the era. For the majority of the 1970s there were two models below the Mirage, the Nomade as Walter has pointed out, and the Nobly. There was a also the Riviera, a 3 speed folding bicycle, if you want to go outside the realms of derailleur equipped models. And depending how you would slot it, they also produced a tandem.

Another difference, for the majority of the 1970s, was that the Mirage had chrome fork ends and dropouts, while the Nomade had a fully painted fork.

I truly empathize with the loss of memory...it happens to us all. ;)

The Team Champion issued in 74', the year after Ocana won the TDF, was the year I was describing. And really there were very few bikes that were full Super Record. The Super Record group was usually complemented with SuperLeggera pedals and a steel bottom bracket.

The blue Team Champion that came along later with the chrome seat stays was a different vintage entirely than the commemorative model I was thinking of with completely different appointments/construction features. But, if I recall, those were Columbus also. Oddly enough, I can't remember a Moto Team Champion from 74' on with 531 or 753 tubing. I do remember that the Team Champion components changed later on to all French with Stronglight cranks and Simplex derailleurs, but that would have been in the very late 70's/early 80's. The blue ones you reference came outfitted that way along with lots of chrome on the frame and a chrome fork. But perhaps you could post a scan of your Moto catalogs from 74 thru 79 to clarify that for us. That would definitely add something positive.

Walter, I do now remember a Nomad 3 speed that Motobecane put out in 73/74 that was a nice electric blue with gold lettering, 27" wheels, and fenders. Very nice bike. I think they took the ten speed frame and put 3 spd parts on it. It rode very nice with the 27" wheels.

Memory laspes? Don't I know it! That's why I'm so glad I kept all my old literature.

I have no doubt there were orange Team Champions with Super Record and Columbus tubing. And I agree with your full Super Record statement. There were just too many problems with the titaniums spindles, not to mention the cost of the full group. In my experience, the bottom bracket, pedals and hubs were usually non-Super record.

As for the blue Team Champion, I believe I said that they used Columbus tubing. The early ones at least were still a Campagnolo Nuovo/Super Record mix. Curiously, I've seen them with Super Record crankarms and brakes, but Nuovo record derailleurs! Now, that's a strange mix. I have seen Columbus tubed, French equipped models (with Weimann brakes) from the early 1980s, but not the late 1970s. Again, that's not to say that they did not exist.

As for the Nomade, it was definitely a 10 speed at least as far back as 1973. It was spec'd with Huret Allvit derailleurs that year.

A couple of people have asked for me to post my literature, but that's a big undertaking. I may get around to it eventually. Right now I'm concentrating on a Sekine website.

Off topic, but with regard to Super Record, I purchased a new Tim Isaac bike equipped with a full Campagnolo Super Record group, alloy bb cups, ti bb spindle with pressed on races, and ti pedal axles in 1977. I raced/rode/crashed it for 3 years and never had a part failure not did I wear out the bb cups or any of the bearing races. The headset was mildly brinneled when I sold it. I thought the stuff held up very well if you knew how to install and adjust it.

>I picked up a Jubilee in really nice shape off eBay for something like $80 so a replacement can be had if you're looking.

Thanks to Y'all for the input.
I saw 2 GJs on eBay so far, both going for the US$250-300 range.
One pretty much stock, the other had some upgrades.

So.....
Since it's been 25 years since I tore apart the GJ and rebuilt it to my liking, which means that everythign I knwop about bikes is irrelevant ;-) .....
What would be a suitable replacement in the same range of quality and price range?
I vaguely recall that I spent about US$250 for it, plus another $200 for the Phil hubs, the tubular rims, plus the Campy derailleur (cheap at a going-our-of business sale), and bar-end shifters.
Add another $100 for miscellaneous things liek the gel seat, the foam handlebar tape, the water bottle (no bottle lugs on bikes of that era), etc.
It wouldn't shock me to spend $1K for a replacement.
I wouldn't mind getting somethign cheaper and buiilding it up again as a weekend project.

Again, after 25 years, you can assuem I knwo nothing about price, quailty mfrs, etc.
I understand Campy is still good ;-)

> I see there are several vintage Motos on eBay at the moment; a couple of nice Mirages and a fair GT.

I saw them. Plus a GT frame. I was a little suspicious of the GT, as one of the detail pictures shows that the decal on the downtube that shows the tubing material has been scraped off. Plus, the gold color was .. bleah.

On my commute home from work this afternoon, I met 2 kids from the local college asking directions to the Chehalis Western bike trail. We were all riding Moto's & took a few minutes to check each other's bikes out: one had a Grand Record and one a "Super Mirage". I didn't know there was such a model as "Super Mirage". It had the same winged headbadge & screened on logo/model script as my Grand Jubile but didn't have the nervex lugs. It had a SunTour Derailleur that looked like a VgT. Both bikes were silver & in pretty good shape, the Grand Record had a NR derailleur & Araya clincher rims laced onto record hubs. My memory isn't that good but I thought the Grand Record came with sew ups? Probably they were replacements. Don

I have a French made Mirage and Nomade, both converted to fixed-gears.
As well as a new downtube shifting Mirage (made in Canada) and a Le Champion
(assembled in Mexico.) The Nomade frame has thinner tubing than either of the lugged Mirages. They have all served me well and the newer models were a good bargin for the price. I have converted most of them over to tubulars.

Clinchers are correct for a Grand Record, at least all the ones I've seen. I'm not exactly sure when the Super Mirage was introduced, but it was some time in the late 1970s.

Really!? You don't care for that color? That's the color my old GT is; with fresh gold striping on the lugs, gumwall tires and an antique brown Brooks saddle, I think it looks pretty good. That color practically never photographs well though, for some reason.

There ya go!
No accounting for taste (g,d&r).
Hmmm... the bike seems to be gone from eBay, the auction is not listed now.
However, there's a GT frame listed that's the same color:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...125259935&rd=1

Not my choice, looks gaudy to me, like something you'd see in Las Vegas.
(I'm getting myself into trouble here, I can see).
Oh, for the person who said they'd not seen a super mirage, there's one on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...124160514&rd=1

Hwen I painted my GJ, I found out the importance of surface preparation.
The first time I painted it, the paint would come off in big patches when you barely scratched it.
The second time, I made sure it was cleaned to bare metal and degreased thoroughly.
Came out real good, though; I used Dupont Duron auto paint, a zillion coats plus clear coat finish.
Man, that was a beautiful bike (sob).

Hi all,

New here. thought I'd interject my two cents on the Moto Team Champ thread.
My Team Champion is, to the best of my ability to date it, (with the help of a nice fellow who years ago sent me scans of two early Moto catalogs) a 72/73 model. Orange. Small, black, stylised script lettering on the down tube as opposed to the later, larger block lettering. Reynolds 531 DB tubes throughout. Half chrome forks. No chrome on rear stays. Full Campy Nuovo record group. No Super Record parts at all on this era bike, but, of course, I think this was before Super Record came out. I believe but am not certain, that this was the first year this model was issued. Anybody know? By the way, right now I've got a pair of Veloflex Roubaix tires on it and if anyone out there is looking for a fine ride, you can hardly do better!

I guess this must be off, off topic, but I broke a Phil bottom bracket axle once, and still have my campy titanium spindle and alloy cups in a bike (I always try to be really light when I ride it, tho).

So, what do I have here?
 

I know this is a very, very old thread...hoping some of you are still around!

This is my latest CL find...how did I do for $150 (maybe less) will be looking at it Thursday.

I don't know what magic dust Moto put in their bikes, but so far I have not met a sport/touring bike that rides as lively as my Grand Jubile (my vintage experience are limited). I was hoping to replace it with a Trek 400. The Trek has 531 main tubes, better brakes and almost 2 lbs lighter. But the Trek felt dead compared to my GJ.

I am patiently waiting for a Grand Record to show up on C/L. Do all vintage French bikes give similar ride quality?

Didn't realized how old this thread was.

I just happen to have a 1977 Moto catalog right here in front of me:D. From the bottom to the top it is...,,,,BD

BTW, I LOVE my 77 GT!

Nomade
Mirage
Super Mirage
Grand Touring
Grand Jubile
Grand Record
Le Champion
Team Champion

Sorry I was so late showing up:D....


http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...CleanMoto1.jpg

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...CleanMoto2.jpg

Regarding "Kitty's" post on the mixte bike, $150 for that bike (a lower end model) is probably "fair market value", and not necessarily a great "deal".

Admitedly I havent read through this entire thread, but for reference here's the line-up from 76:

http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...-76/Page15.JPG

the entire '76 catalog:

http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Motobecane-76/

and my '77 Grand Jubilee:

http://www.brian-payne.com/gallery/m...serialNumber=2

more detail pics of mine can be found here - http://www.brian-payne.com/gallery/m...g2_itemId=2518

I got it for $120-ish off of CL a few months ago. It was completely original in great condition. Love the ride. The only changes I've made so far has been:
-replacing original saddle with a leather Wrights, changed small chainring from 39t to 38t. I kept all of the original stuff though, including the Motobecane branded toe straps. I'm toying with changing out the bars and stem just to make it more ridable for me. They're too skinny and I'd like them slightly higher. If I do that I'll keep them around too so I can return it to original should I ever want to.

Sweet GJ!! Very nice bike. I love the bell choice. I got a similar one for my 40's bike project.,,,,BD