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need information about bike. Nervex lugs and campa dropouts and reynolds 531 tubes
Can anyone help me identify this frame.
It has very nice nervex lugs, campy dropouts, reynolds 531 tubes and is build up with early campy stuff. The best is you have a look at the pictures. The bike was build up by Nicolas Frantz, an old luxemburgish cyclist who had his own shop. He had it build up for a very good friend of his. The bad thing is that there are only decals on it from his shop, so it is not easy for me to find out what frame it actually is. Everything is in very good condition for it`s age and with a little polish the components and frame will look very nice again. One other question I have. I heard that Campagnolo did fabricate only one saddle, the electa. But now I had a closer look at the saddle of this bike and noticed a Campagnolo stamp on the top of it. Also the rails have writen Campagnolo on it. Has anyone more info about this? http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...6/P1080899.jpg http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...6/P1080900.jpg http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...6/P1080901.jpg http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...6/P1080902.jpg http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...6/P1080903.jpg http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...6/P1080904.jpg http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...6/P1080905.jpg http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...6/P1080906.jpg http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/y...6/P1080907.jpg |
I can't tell you anything about the frame, but the saddle is a Brooks Campagnolo version with narrow rails - and the seatpost also has the cradles top and bottom designed for this special narrow saddle.
DD |
yah thats a cool saddle, I have two sets of the narrow hardware but dont think ill ever find a saddle to match either of them up with.
The bike, as far as the parts go looks like early 60s, maybe even late 50s I figured it was French until you mentioned Lux. The rake on that fork is awesome! |
very interesting! some very rare bits on that fine-looking frame: is this an alloy-armed cottered TA crank? And early Campy hubs? 4-S freewheel? In spite of the Nervex lugs and BB, and the 531 plain-gauge tubing, and "Brit" looking lining I'm thinking it could be Italian due to all the early Italian components, but I have no confidence in that guess.
Hope a real expert chimes in...maybe made in Benelux? Swiss? |
BB thread might answer some ideas as to its origins.
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Originally Posted by spurious
(Post 14177844)
BB thread might answer some ideas as to its origins.
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 14177808)
very interesting! some very rare bits on that fine-looking frame: is this an alloy-armed cottered TA crank? And early Campy hubs? 4-S freewheel? In spite of the Nervex lugs and BB, and the 531 plain-gauge tubing, and "Brit" looking lining I'm thinking it could be Italian due to all the early Italian components, but I have no confidence in that guess.
Hope a real expert chimes in...maybe made in Benelux? Swiss? That is an interesting bike. |
Originally Posted by CV-6
(Post 14177919)
I am not sure that is cottered. I think it is this, a TA 1500 It might be considered cottered, but not in the usual sense.
That is an interesting bike. I'm guessing again (while waiting for the OP to provide the BB threading clue) that TA BBs were offered in French and British but not Italian...did I guess right? :D EDIT: No, at least for later cotterless BB units, the '73 catalog shows 3 threadings: BR FR and Ital (I got to start making better guesses!) |
Very cool looking.
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You can distinguish French from Italian by the BB shell width (68 vs 70mm), the BB threading (35x1 vs 36x24), or the outer diameter of the seat tube (28 vs 28.6). Cool bike!
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If this bike was built for the shop by a contract builder, then that is what the bike is, a "Franz". Or are you saying that Franz took another bike, took off the decals and applied his own "Franz" decals?
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Originally Posted by John E
(Post 14178326)
You can distinguish French from Italian by the BB shell width (68 vs 70mm), the BB threading (35x1 vs 36x24), or the outer diameter of the seat tube (28 vs 28.6). Cool bike!
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Originally Posted by dbakl
(Post 14178181)
Very cool looking.
Joseph |
Thanks for all the great help and numerous posts!
I will check which BB threading it has as soon as I am at home this evening. The little somewhat that is obscuring the view of the end of the spindle appears to be cork or something like that. Oh, and Repechage, I think it is going to be a keeper as I do not have any similar bike. ;) Also I should ad that the seller offered me the bike for free ( I still made a small donation), so I think it would not be fair to make profit out of it. |
Originally Posted by vjp
(Post 14178447)
If this bike was built for the shop by a contract builder, then that is what the bike is, a "Franz". Or are you saying that Franz took another bike, took off the decals and applied his own "Franz" decals?
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 14177808)
very interesting! some very rare bits on that fine-looking frame: is this an alloy-armed cottered TA crank? And early Campy hubs? 4-S freewheel? In spite of the Nervex lugs and BB, and the 531 plain-gauge tubing, and "Brit" looking lining I'm thinking it could be Italian due to all the early Italian components, but I have no confidence in that guess.
Hope a real expert chimes in...maybe made in Benelux? Swiss? 5 speed by the looks of it. |
Originally Posted by spurious
(Post 14179419)
5 speed by the looks of it.
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Oh pretty.
Sorta reminds me of my Motobecane Grand Record '72 frame. It too has campy dropouts, Nervx lugs and the fork rake looks similar. Reynolds 531 too. Though, mine has no braze on anything. I see your top tube has some braze ons. Maybe they were added after the fact? |
that looks like a diamond in the rough! no idea on the builder, though.
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I know nothing but those decals and head badge look original to me. At least from this seat. Who is N. Frantz? Shop owner? Maybe a contract builder who built frames for shops to stick their logos on.
If it were mine, I wouldn't change a thing on that bike, aside from maybe new brake cable housings if you're not able to save the originals. Shorten the rear dérailleur housing a bit, and find a nut for the front brake caliper through bolt. Very cool old bike. |
Originally Posted by rootboy
(Post 14180276)
I know nothing but those decals and head badge look original to me. At least from this seat. Who is N. Frantz? Shop owner? Maybe a contract builder who built frames for shops to stick their logos on.
If it were mine, I wouldn't change a thing on that bike, aside from maybe new brake cable housings if you're not able to save the originals. Shorten the rear dérailleur housing a bit, and find a nut for the front brake caliper through bolt. Very cool old bike. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Frantz He was the shopowner in a village next to my city |
Oops. I should have looked that up. I wonder if the family would know anything about who, or what shop Mr Franz contracted out his name to, to build frames? Could be a long shot. Does your generous donor still have contact with the Franz family?
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Originally Posted by John E
(Post 14178326)
You can distinguish French from Italian by the BB shell width (68 vs 70mm), the BB threading (35x1 vs 36x24), or the outer diameter of the seat tube (28 vs 28.6). Cool bike!
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
(Post 14178079)
Yep, I think it is that TA 1500 Criterium...just hard to see the unique shape of the spindle end due to something (a wad of old chewing gum?) obscuring it.
I'm guessing again (while waiting for the OP to provide the BB threading clue) that TA BBs were offered in French and British but not Italian...did I guess right? :D EDIT: No, at least for later cotterless BB units, the '73 catalog shows 3 threadings: BR FR and Ital (I got to start making better guesses!) I think you are right, it is the TA 1500 Criterium |
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