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Another Grail bike build. 1986 Alan Carbonio! Finally!

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Another Grail bike build. 1986 Alan Carbonio! Finally!

Old 05-06-12, 11:34 PM
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Another Grail bike build. 1986 Alan Carbonio! Finally! (Update: Build Done!)

Thanks to schnibop I finally aquired a 1986 Alan Carbonio frameset to build up. It's one of my"grail" bikes that I have been searching for, but was never able to find at an affordable price or in good enough condition. It's actually a Carbonio sold through Nishiki in 1986 with only decals and the absence of an FD mounting tang different. The custom tubular wheelset buiilt up in 1987 with Hoshi bladed spokes and Regina7 speed CXS FW are ones I just got from DD before I got the frame. When I saw them on the forum classifieds I just had a feeling that I will need them for a project and I guess this one is it! Coincidence or clairvoyance??......Thanks DD!

I almost have everything on hand in my component stash to build up the bike. One thing the bike is not going to be, is a Campy group build-up which seems to be typical of many Carbonio builds. I'd like to do something different from what's typical or expected by most.

There's a mix of Swiss Italian and French in this component pile. I'm still debating whether to go with the Weinmann Deltas or the Mavic 440 SSC brakeset that I also have. I figure the Weinmann Deltas will go nicely with the Edco Competition cranks, becuase of the Swiss connection, but I'm a little apprehensive about the Deta's performace, which never seemed to get any good reviews. I guess I'll find out......I can always fall back on to the Mavic 440 SSC's which was actually sole by Edco under thier lable together with the Competition cranks. I'm favoring the Weinmanns right now because of their uniqueness.








The Frame from schnibop is as perfect as they come, and almost NOS with no chips or scratches on all the CF tubes. Only thing missing are the Nishiki Decals which the original owner removed. I have an Alan decal set coming in the mail already to fix that.

My first Italian bike (Finally!) this Carbonio, and it's one I considered a grail bike. Only a couple of things left to get before I can build it up, but it should be complete in about two to three weeks. I'll post up pics of the completed bike once it's done. I think this pretty much completes my stable of one steel and three CF C&V bikes! Not really looking for anything else...........for now(?)......

Thanks again schnibop and DD!

Chombi

Last edited by Chombi; 05-26-12 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 05-07-12, 12:01 AM
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Amazing, can't wait to see the build. I think the deltas would be perfect for the bike (if they work well enough)
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Old 05-07-12, 12:09 AM
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Looks like an interesting build. I'll admit I'm always leaning in the complete matching group type build but I really like the choices you're making. Can't wait to see it built up! Oh, and that wheelset you picked up from DrilliumDude is going to look pretty *****in' in my opinion.


Im glad you're so happy with the frame, wish it were a size or two taller
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Old 05-07-12, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Chombi
I think this pretty much completes my stable of one steel and three CF C&V bikes! Not really looking for anything else...........for now(?)......

Chombi
Awesome, I can't wait to see this built up! I find it interesting you are going for four bikes (3 CF). Right now I've got a vintage steel (81 Bianchi) and vintage aluminum (an 87' Vitus), and really want to eventually go for the big four - that is I'm currently looking for an old carbon, like your Carbonio, and want at some point to find an old Titanium speedwell or something to round it out I'm hoping to start a trend!
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Old 05-07-12, 04:25 AM
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I almost made an effort to purchase an identical frame set recently. Fortunately for me, or not, I decided against it and the decision was based on two things - I am broke and I already have five or six very interesting projects waiting for me to get at. Sadly, I have become incredibly busy with my bicycle offerings to others and with correspondence requirements generated by my website.

Why would I want the Carbonino? Because I have never owned a carbon anything bicycle and also because I loved my one and only, stolen and cleared, early eighties ALAN Super Record. What a nice bicycle and the OP is in for a treat when test ride and ride alot times come to be...

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Old 05-07-12, 07:01 AM
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Congrats Chombi, I can't wait to see this one built up - I love those frames! I'm with you on the group, I love picking each component to serve a purpose and to suit a build, I've enver cared whether anything matched or not. Looks like it's going to be awesome!
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Old 05-07-12, 07:05 AM
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That is a beauty. Very cool component set too.

I think you now have an example from each of the three primary makers of lugged carbon frames in the "vintage era" - call it pre-1990s - LineSeeker/Exxon, Vitus, and ALAN. Is that right?

Maybe to complete the theme you could add an early LOOK? I'm not sure when their carbon frames were being made - 1980s or 1990s?
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Old 05-07-12, 07:31 AM
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Don't be surprised when you'll find me one morning trying to open your garage with a broken quick release, drooling and yeering fantastic bike, I'm looking for one to to match my ALAN super record, easily my favourite bike.
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Old 05-07-12, 07:31 AM
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Impressive!
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Old 05-07-12, 08:50 AM
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The frame looks great, you couldn't hope for one in better condition. Can't wait to see how it turns out.
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Old 05-07-12, 09:08 AM
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Never seen one of those. Thanks for sharing. I look forward to build pics.
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Old 05-07-12, 11:52 AM
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Congrats! The frame is gorgeous. I look forward to seeing your finished build and a ride report/comparo to your other similar rides.
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Old 05-07-12, 12:05 PM
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Very cool. I'm not so much into carbon, but I have to admit this one is quite se*y, and will be even more so wearing that NOS Concor.
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Old 05-07-12, 06:04 PM
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Can't wait to see it built up.
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Old 05-07-12, 06:32 PM
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Thanks very much for all the encouragement on ths buildup guys!
The Italian bike scene is uncharted waters for me after just doing all French stuff for many years.
I just bought the BB for this build and It's just the seatpost that's missing. The one that came with the frame is still OK (A Shimano 600), but it does not sit well with the all Euro group I have going already. I think I have an idea what to get already. More to come as the build progress.

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Old 05-08-12, 09:01 AM
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Congrats on what will be an epic build (sorry to use that term, but in this case it applies).
I unloaded an ALAN Carbonio for a friend about a year ago, it was labeled Fanini (race team) and had a loose stay so it was sold cheap to either be wall-art or "fix at your own risk".
Which brings me to my question: anybody know how the main tubes are glued into the alloy lugs on there frames? I'd bet real money that there's nothing like threading cut into carbon kevlar tubes, regardless how they may or may not be on a conventional ALAN alloy tube frame.
Any ridges inside the lug sockets to hold the glue?
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Old 05-08-12, 09:07 AM
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I too am not much into carbon frames but that is one cool frame. Great you finally sourced such a nice one Chombi.
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Old 05-08-12, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by unworthy1
...............Which brings me to my question: anybody know how the main tubes are glued into the alloy lugs on there frames? I'd bet real money that there's nothing like threading cut into carbon kevlar tubes, regardless how they may or may not be on a conventional ALAN alloy tube frame.
Any ridges inside the lug sockets to hold the glue?
I remember when I was cleaning up the thresds on the BB shell, I think I saw what looks like aluminum plugs that glue into the ends of the CF tubes going into the BB shell. They must have been pressed or screwed in with the glue. I think they might act like conical wedges that will make it hard to pull out the CF tubes from the BB shell.
I'll take a pic of it and post it up as it seems like the bonding methods for these early CF frames remains to be a mystery for most of us.
I did not see the same aluminum plugs at the head tube. Just small holes that lines up with the center of the TT and DT as you might sometimes see in brazed steel frames. I have no idea what the holes are for, but I suspect that they could have been used to align the tubes when assembling them in the factory. I suspect that more conventionsl bonding methods are used in that area.

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Old 05-08-12, 09:56 AM
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Gorgeous, Chombi. Now, build it... quick!
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Old 05-13-12, 09:33 PM
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Update on Carbonio, Test Asssembly:

Here's a "dry run" with the component group I think I'll use on the bike. The BB just came in at the end of the week together with the new decals from UK, so I have all the stuff to build her up except for the brake cables which need to have a different end than what I have already. Bars and brake levers were left off for this test assembly.









Here's the component list so far.

Derailleurs: Mavic SSC 851 group RD and matching FD. I would have gone with Mavic's later indexed Mavic RDs, but just can't swing the cost to find and buy those. I can always change the derailleurs later, but they did still use the 851s on many bikes in 1986 when the bike was made.
Shifters: Mavic/Simplex Retrofriction.
Chain: Sedis/Sachs MC90 narrow with black and silver links.
Crankset: Edco Competition 170mm x 144BCD, 52 x 42 tooth rings.
Freewheel: Regina CX, 7 speed.
Bottom Bracket: Edco Competition 116mm, sealed bearings with double adjustable aluminum cups.
Seatpost: 25mm dia. Shimano 600 Aero (Came with frame).
Saddle: Selle San Marco Concor Supercorsa.
Brakes: Weinmann Delta with Aero levers.
Headset: Miche Primato with needle bearings. I thought of using my Stronglight Deltas, but the steerer tube is a bit short for the Deta's stack height.
Pedals: Look Keo Classic.
Waterbottle cage: Blackburn aluminum race cage.
Stem: Early 90's (can't remember what model) Italmanubri with clamshell type clamp (for 25.4mm diameter bar?, that was a suprise for me!?), Silver and black anodized.
Handlebar: Italmanubri model Europa Super Racing, black anodized, previously from my PSV, bought back in the 80's. (25.4mm dia, see stem).
Wheels: Custom tubular wheelsset built by Kevin King(?) 1987 with Hoshi bladed spokes in radial pattern up front and 2x at drive side and radial on non-drive side at rear, Capmgnolo Record hubs and unknown 32H semi aero profile rims.
Tires: Schwalbe Milano tubs.

Note that I also included pics of the bike with my Stronglight Delta crankset with carbon wrapped big ring mounted as a possible alternative over the Edco Competition cranks. The Edco Competition crank have spider and arm shapes that seems to nicely match the soft contours and shapes of the aluminum lugs on the frame, but then the carbon wrapped big ring on the Stronglight crank seems to look nice on the bike too. What do you guys think is better on the bike?? I'm also not 100% sold on the Weinmann Delta brakes yet, Still wondering if my Mavic 440 SSC sidepulls will work better fundtionally and aesthetically enough to become the final choice, but Dang!, the old sintered pads on the Mavic are rock hard and pretty worn, so it can hold up the project if I pick it, as I'll have to find acceptable replacements The stock pads are close to unobtanium these days, maybe for good reasons. Some of the threads in the aluminum seat binder bolt are already galled, It will work for now, but I'll have to replace the binder bolt soon.

Well, just one more cleaning session for the frame, then the decals go on before the other parts get lubricated and mounted permanently on the frame to finish the build.....maybe in a week??

Chombi

Last edited by Chombi; 05-14-12 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 05-13-12, 09:43 PM
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WOW! that is looking so sexy! i'm super jealous, i really wish it had fit me haha


i like both cranks, so i can't help you there. but if i were using the EDCO BB, i'd have to go with the EDCO cranks.

i know nothing about the Weinmann brakes, but i'd probably choose the Mavic brakes any day.


you say the seat binder bolt is stripping out? PM me with measurements and i'll see what i have in my stash, i can't leave you hanging after selling you the frame can i i have a black CR-MO, a Miche and a Sugino, but they're all different dimensions, so let me know
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Old 05-13-12, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by shnibop
WOW! that is looking so sexy! i'm super jealous, i really wish it had fit me haha


i like both cranks, so i can't help you there. but if i were using the EDCO BB, i'd have to go with the EDCO cranks.

i know nothing about the Weinmann brakes, but i'd probably choose the Mavic brakes any day.


you say the seat binder bolt is stripping out? PM me with measurements and i'll see what i have in my stash, i can't leave you hanging after selling you the frame can i i have a black CR-MO, a Miche and a Sugino, but they're all different dimensions, so let me know
Thanks for the offer to help on the seatpost binder bolt schnibop! I'll have to measure it when I do the teardown again when I'm ready to tackle the re-decal work somethime maybe within the week. It's definitely different from the 8mm Campy seatpost binder bolt that I had to deal with recently. I suspect it's a 10mm?...but I'll find out. I hope it's your Miche tht matches so it will go with my Miche Primato headset I already have installed!

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Old 05-14-12, 03:22 AM
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This is getting better and better. Great bike, Chombi!
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Old 05-14-12, 05:44 AM
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I like the Stronglight cranks, aesthetically.

And the Weinman Delta brakes.

Is there some way to pick up on the copper (gold?) toned bands on the seat stays? Anodized bottle cage? Colored nipples? Cables? Not sure what will match up, just a detail but would be cool.

Beautiful frame, wicked wheelset.

Last edited by jyl; 05-14-12 at 05:48 AM.
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Old 05-14-12, 06:00 AM
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I agree that is a great looking ridea nd the project seems to be going pretty smooth. I really like the black chainring, it stands out for a jest a sec or two then blends in with the whole silver/black color of the frame, then comes back to foreground somehow.
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