Mos6502

Who're you going to cry to when the buyer complains about a scratch on his item and ebay automatically refunds him with money from your bank account?

It'll happen sooner or later the way ebay is going.

Also try this link.

Drillium Dude

And how - your site is one-stop-shopping for C&V newbies. Talk about a wealth of information!

DD

mparker326

I know none of us do this as sellers, but there are a lot of lets dig some piece of crap out from under a rock say it is "like new" and try to sell it on ebay.
Those same sellers would hold the buyers feedback hostage. Ebay is trying to protect itself. I'll bet there are more crappy sellers out there than buyers.

As a buyer, I appreciate ebay's buyer protection plan. I have used it to get a forced refund of a stolen cell phone I bought.

In business, you cut a PO, the vendor delivers the goods and the business pays the invoice. I.E. you get the goods first then you pay. Ebay, you pay first to someone you don't know and pray the goods get delivered. I am very happy with Ebay's policy.

I am also happy that I can have a market for a bike that I found on CL, and sell it for 3 times what I paid.

You guys are too paranoid. Haven't your good ebay experiences far outnumbered your bad experiences?

randyjawa 

In days gone bye, absolutely. However, lately the good experiences are few and far between. And, the nature of the bad experiences seems worse to me, now that I have little, or no, opportunity to defend myself, as a seller, is the event of a dispute.

I speak from experience. The situation, even though I produced verifying documentation, went in the buyers favor. He got the blue leather NOS roll saddle, and his hundred bucks back and I was out a saddle plus what I paid to ship it. Ebay handled the reimbursement to the buyer, taking money from my account without permission, and then denied me any forum to complain or seek recompense.

So, even though there used to be plenty of really good experiences, they seem to be no more. And that is OK with me. I wish Ebay good fortune, because they do offer a service, but their policy changes, increased prices and lack of perceived fairness, cause me to seek opportunities elsewhere.

Mos6502

I did, up until about the point that ebay discarded the negative feedback for buyers, and thus gave them no disincentive to act like completely and utter asses. Not saying that means all buyers are or will do that.

But right after that occurred (and admittedly likely a consequence) I took a return for an item because a buyer was incensed that they had paid more for it than it was marked for on the price tag still on the box. This despite you know, me starting the auction at 99 cents and not having a reserve.

I had no real reason to take the item back, but I wanted them to be happy. It looks though, that soon the buyer will be getting to keep the item, and getting a refund of my money from my bank account in such situations. What's to keep them from doing so? I can't leave feedback, and paypal and ebay automatically assume seller is at fault.

mparker326

Weren't you supposed to leave feedback when a buyer pays and not hold a buyer hostage in case they complained about something?

It wasn't enough that a buyer wins your auction and pays you? I'm glad sellers can't leave negative feedback.

Not trying to pick a fight but there are more crappy sellers than buyers.

miamijim

That's why I put a disclaimer in every one of my auctions. "This is a used item, therefore its only reasonable to expect a variety of nicks, scratches and blemishes. I've done my best to depict the overall conditon in the pictures provided, please review them carefully".

You guys that are always comlaining...I do like to see some of your ads.

Mos6502

None of that has anything to do with what I said. My point was that there's no reason for a buyer to behave honestly if they can only be rewarded, no matter what they do.

KvltBryce

Unrelated: but why SO MANY question marks in the title?

**************************************************????

Related: This is total BS, it looks like eBay no longer has interest in the customer or user, just covering their own "saddle jewelry"

Mos6502

You've been lucky so far. I do have 100% positive feedback, but I have taken returns on items that were exactly as I described them. And if ebay is going to make it so that a buyer can keep something that was accurately described just because they changed their mind about it, or because they want to scam a seller and there's nothing a seller can do about it... then no thank you, I have better things to do than give both my money and items away.

You're going to have to count on the integrity, honesty, and many times the intelligence of a buyer - if you want to keep your money. I can't even list an item any more saying "do not bid unless you know how to properly operate this item" because ebay now forbids you from warning buyers this way. There are a lot of antique cameras that a newb can ruin with a few seconds of fiddling if they don't know how to properly handle them. For me it's not worth the risk of selling items like that any more, because I just know that some clod is going to take it out of the box, fnck it up in three seconds, and then say I sent them a broken item.

Drillium Dude

Those of you assuming there's no way there can be an equal ratio of bad buyers to bad sellers are - how should I put this - either very naive or too trusting

Come on - really? You seriously think that the majority of scammers on Ebay are sellers?

As Mos6502 states so succinctly, what incentive is there for a buyer to play fair when the cards are completely stacked in his favor? I would submit that there is probably a shift in the buyer's direction when it comes to disproportionate scamming.

Of course, I have no proof of this, but common sense would dictate that with little to no support with which to pursue recompense from scam buyers, the more they will operate on Ebay.

I didn't just wake up one day - after 8.5 years as a seller - and whine/cry/*****/moan. This has been a slowly-percolating thing, as the gradual decline of the level playing field has occured. I see I'm not the only one.

As for my auctions, I believe in full-disclosure, lots of pics and prompt answers to questions. My only issues over the years as a seller have been missing packages; with the situation as it is now, I can see missing packages becoming the norm. Sorry if that sounds paranoid, but scammers are everywhere and I like to mitigate that possibility as much as I can. So I sell on this Forum.

There are buyers/traders here that I'm sure are happy I binned selling on Ebay

DD

iab

lol

Did you bother to click any of those "hits"?

Sure, it found matches for "cinelli" "steel" "bars", but not for "cinelli steel bars". I don't need to look at some dumbass steel fixie with hacked-off Cinelli bars. That's crap. I have no time for crap.

There was one possible real hit but the post was deleted by the author.

There are currently 2 "cinelli steel bars" on ebay. There was one last week. I'm sure there will be one or two more next week.

craigslist still sucks.

iab

Their rules.

I don't whine about them.

You should stop.

Drillium Dude

^ This attitude just flabbergasts me, to be perfectly honest.

Because it's their rules, does that make it right?

Whining and making a legitimate complaint are two different things. I hope you don't have to be on the receiving end of being labeled a whiner when you feel you're making a legitimate complaint.

DD

iab

No. You are a whiner.

Their rules are within the rule of law. Your personal "right" and "wrong" are irrelevant.

Don't like it? Quit whining and change the law.

zukahn1

Well as much as I complain about E-bay I probably shouldn't considering in the past 6 months or so I have gotten several hundred for parts that would be scrap metal locally. And purchesed several very nice parts for below legit wholesale cost with free shipping.

Drillium Dude

Oops - I forgot this is the Internet. Later, guys - have fun

DD

Tycho Brahe 

Ebay no longer wants to attract sellers that sell 1-2 used items. They want to cater to the small-time businesses that do not want to set up an internet site for themselves. Ebay is more of a merchant marketplace nowadays. The original site that catered to people selling their used stuff is long gone.

I have quit selling on Ebay. I could handle the increase in fees, but there is no seller's protection. Extremely simple for buyers to game the system and get free items. Not worth the risk.

randyjawa 

I did click on the links but I must admit I just imput Cinelli Bars, not steel Cinelli bars, and I got lots of hits. My mistake. None the less, the concern was how to search all of Craigslist and that link I offered is one way to do so.

wrk101

I accept the risk. Why? Because I only sell garage sale/thrift store finds, items I only pay $1 for (or less), almost all non-bike related. I probably average $25 to $30 per item. So even after all the fees, and the 1% scammers, I end up way ahead. Now as the scammers become more prevalent, the economics will change.

Mos6502

What? Don't read what I'm typing if you don't like what I say. See two can play at that game. lol

biking809070

Having one time had to actually use their buyer protection plan as a buyer when an item I received was defective, I always wondered how they were going to get their money back from the creep that tried to stiff me by refusing to do anything about it. I don't blame them for wanting to assure themselves a way of getting their money from the seller. I think their policy is intended to make people more willing to buy because the buyer is assured of being protected. By protecting the buyer, it also benefits the sellers. Protected buyers are more willing to bid and to bid higher because there is less risk. So the seller is (at least on average) going to get better prices because of the buyer protection plan. Ebay can only afford to do that if it can be assured of being able to get its money from the seller. The overall policy makes the buying experience similar to buying from an established commercial merchant with a good return policy.

On the other hand, it does seem like establishing long a strong track record of satisfactory transactions should buy you a little slack in their policy.

conspiratemus1

^ A perfectly sensible post. But you are too late with it. This thread has already degenerated to the usual bitterness, just as do all the other "I-hate-eBay-but-I-do-like-being-able-to-sell-to-the-world" threads. All is lost.

rootboy 

At the risk of being tagged with an insulting moniker, I'll admit upfront; I'm a whiner and complainer. There. But I am not an overly-machismo name caller who can't tolerate a little online discussion which might include criticism. Ebay made a mistake by punishing all sellers because of the nefarious actions of a small percentage. They took the cheap, easy way out. No surprise. Seems to me it wouldn't be all that hard to have some programmer design a logarithm which punished the guilty but left those with no buyer complaints against them alone. You contravene the rules, they hit you. If not, they don't. Simple. Instead, they punish and alienate long time sellers and, they don't give a s**t. Why? Because they're still making millions regardless of what they do.

lostarchitect 

As someone who only buys on Ebay and doesn't sell, I am thankful for the buyer protection. I'm sure it's a hassle to low volume sellers, and I'm sorry about that--it's too bad the policy is one size fits all and they don't have a different policy for people who aren't selling hundreds of items a day. That said, I still appreciate that ebay looks out for the buyer--and keep in mind they have more buyers than sellers. Personally, I have never had cause to leave anyone negative feedback (I left one neutral feedback once), and I hope it stays that way.