Please advise on this 1930's track bike
 

Hi All,

I am a longtime lurker (first time poster) and I am working on cleaning and assembling a friend's 1930's track bike. It is a beautiful bike, but I have never worked on anything so old. The pictures say more than anything, but here is what we know: The bike was purchased in the 1930's, by my friend's father, from an Italian's bike shop in a New York City. I suspect that he made the frame.

My questions:

• Any idea about manufacturer? There are no serial numbers on the bottom bracket, so I suspect that this is a shop–made bike.

• Who made the lugs? Do they help to date the bike? They look remarkably similar to those here. Note: The oil cap on the bottom bracket reads: Abingdon Works LTD. No other marks on the lugs.

• Are the rims original? The hubs (stamped "Brampton England") are surely original, though I am not certain about rims. They read "Schwin Tubular S-6" and they appear to be drilled for a schrader valve. From good ol' Sheldon Brown's site, I can see that the S-6 is in fact an old school English size used through the 1950's.

• *** What specific tires do you recommend? I want to get a nice, racy road tire that is as perfect as possible for the rims, better than something "close enough".

•*Do the BSA cranks help to date the bike?

•*The bolt for the seat post is bent and will not fix well to the bike; it may be beyond repair. How would you go about finding a vintage-appropriate replacement?

Many thanks in advance. Your help will put this family heirloom back on the road!

– Kyle

Looks younger than the 1930's to me.

The s-6 designation is on a 1973 Schwinn I have, the tires even say to fit Schwinn s-6 rims on them. I don't think that particular s-6 rim is anywhere near the 1930's.
It is what Schwinn called a tubular rim in the 60's - 70's. Not for tubular tires, that's something different, the rim has a hollow tube in each side making it very strong. The dealers often had a short piece of a rim cut away to show customers. I know someone who was there in those days.

The trike in my sig is 1973 Schwinn it has three of them in 24".

I don't know much about old bikes, but the BSA in the chain ring was a company in England that made bicycles and motorcycles. -- Birmingham Small Arms.

I have ridden 650cc and a 500cc(?) BSA motorcycles. I think the motorcycles were from the 1960's or the early 1970's. They stopped making them.
Whatever your bike is it sure is nice.

Hi repechage -- I think that pictures don't do it justice. It is exceptionally well preserved.

All of the component that I have read up on (BSA cranks, S-6 rims, and "abingdon works ltd" oil cap on the bottom bracket) are of the era.

What looks more modern to you?

Thank you, 2manybikes and repechage, both. So the wheels are 60's or 70's vintage. The hubs are Brampton, which is the make of the headset too (which must be original). So they must have been relaced at some point.

It makes sense that the rims were replaced. That's common.

It may have had originally glue on tires. Called "tubular" tires, nothing to do with the "tubular" rim. They are tires with a inner tube sewn inside them and are glued to a rim with a curve in it that matches the inflated tire. That's what most people are talking about when they use the words "tubular tires".

There may be a lot about "BSA" on line. I think my friends BSA motorcycle was a "Lightning Twin" two cylinder. Now I have to go look !!:):)

EDIT : I was right, it was a Lightning http://www.realclassic.co.uk/bsa03112100.html

The general angles of the frame and rake of the fork to me place it in the 50's. The components I discount very much, it is easy to swap stuff out. Assuming the chrome is original I would also point to post WW II.
I agree that it most probably had 700 c tubular tires when built.

Ahhhh, that rings a bell. There was a time I knew the distinction between tubular rims and wheels -- thank you so much for the clarification. Now with that decided, any preferences for tires?

That's a burly bike. I read somewhere that BSA equipped the British military with folding bikes in WW2.

Yes, and guns. There is a photo somewhere in these forums of one of those bikes.

I would ditch the rims, the tires are very unusual and the ones now around are cheap. If that bike will take 700c modern rims, laced to the old hubs would make life a lot better. I have no idea if they will fit. If you have a tough time working out the sizes, borrow a 700c tire or a front wheel from a friend and just see if they fit. The modern hubs may be too wide to fit the frame, but that does not matter just to check the size of the rim.

If the rims now on the bike are marked well enough you can search on line for tires. Sheldon Brown's pages have a link to Harris Cyclery in Boston. A phone call might help. Don't ask for Sheldon he passed a while back.

The only tires I searched for like that were the 24" ones for the trike. I ended up with wheelchair tires.
Your wheels are bigger diameter, you may find tires easier than I did.

It has a clip headset, wouldn't that put it pre-1950?

Track bike with a pump ??? and tyres rather than sew up ??
These hubs are more for road use then track.
I would think of someone who recently put together a mixture or parts.

What does the saddle say ?

30's may be right for the frame/fork as a road/path bike. The angle of the dropout compared to the chain stay tube looks like the earlier construction or inexperienced builder. BB oilers seem to end around '50 or so.

Way cool bike for sure. You need some old 700c tubular rims.

The S-6 rim was used on the pre-war New World and could be used on the Superior. It had a Stamping mark Schwinn Superior on the rim and was chromeplated steel. Right after the war this was change and it was marked Schwinn Stainless S-6. At some later date this was changed to the Schwinn tubular marking. This bike could have been originaly made for on S-6 rim and it was changed over time to a newer rim if the old rim was damaged.

Make them wood. Aluminum wasn't popular until the late 30s.

And I agree, I can't imagine a track bike without tubulars. Many tracks require them on the bikes.

wooden rims would be correct and look really sweet on that bike, you may find used ones or new ones are available

Don't forget to re-vulcanize the tyres. :)

Just an insignificant detail; unless we're talking of something different, my circa '63 Frejus has a BB oiler on it Frank. But maybe that's not quite the same thing, fwiw.

Thank you to everyone -- you guys are awesome! I know family stories can be distorted, but my friend is very confident that his Dad bought this in sometime in the early/mid 30's. As a kid, he remembers his Dad putting him in an attached wooden cart and biking from New York City all the way down to Atlantic City!

@Munny: As for an explanation of the pump and newer rims: by the 1950's and through the 60's, this was being used exclusively as a road bike. The saddle is a Brooks.

@kroozer: the clip headset stood out to me, too. The stem is drilled for a through-bolt, too, but there is none there. Did people use one or the other back then? (BTW the stem is marked A. Brambilla Milano.)

@ pakman:
So do you have an idea about what vintage these "Schwin Tubular s-6" rims are? Though replacements, I think there is some family heritage in them nevertheless.

@puchfinnland: I'm not sure if rebuilding the wheels is quite in the cards, but I agree that wood tubulars would look awesome.

Any ID on the the lugs? The tubing looks and feels to me like Reynolds 351, which Wikipedia says was introduced in 1935, but I don't know what else was being used then.

We'll get this thing road-worthy and preserved correctly for the future.

That is one cool old frame. I'm wondering, 'cause I know nothing from nothing, could that be nickel plating if it is that old? Sure is neat.

Nickel has been used since the late 1800's. Chrome was first used on bicycles around '36 or so.

Good point. There are few "hard and fast" rules that we can apply to bicycle dating.

Thanks Frank. I'll bet it's nickel, from the looks of it, but of course chrome can get that look when it's old and worn. Nickel has that sort of warmish glow, as you know.

Wasn't sure you were referring to an actual oil cap in a previous post or not. Sounds like the ones on the old British bikes were actual oilers, with a spring-loaded, hinged cap, etc. While the one on the Italian bike looks more like a grease zerk, though I understand it was meant for oil as well.

Full frames?

I have components and a fork chromed in 1933. The frame is nickel plated. I have also seen chromed components from the 20s.

Yeah, guys rode track bikes on the road for training. Still a good chance to get a flat...

I'd guess wheels were replaced for road use.

chrome on Yachts is simmillar in time frame, early 1930ish is when chrome became in fashion.

Still the pump pegs is a discussion