Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Re: Suntour Superbe crank tapers

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Re: Suntour Superbe crank tapers

Old 06-12-12, 08:25 PM
  #1  
whatwolf
Unimatrix Zero
Thread Starter
 
whatwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Suntour Superbe crank tapers

I have done multiple searches on this topic but mainly come up with discussions of the track cranks, not road, and can't seem to find definitive answers or a timeline.

I have a Suntour Superbe (old style) crankset that I would like to use for my next build (an Italian frame.) The velobase link above states the BB style as JIS, which makes sense for a Japanese crank. I currently have the crank set up on a Superbe BB, but am unsure of its taper. Whatever it is, it fits fine, but I now need an Italian BB for this same crank.

I have gotten a little confused by the mention of Suntour's proprietary taper and would like some clarification as to which cranks it affects. Does it have a correlation to the crank BCD?

Both my Suberbe and Superbe Pro road cranksets have a BCD of 144. Was this a move on their part to be competitive with Campy in the 80s?

Questions:

- Can anyone verify that this style of crank (CW-1000) uses a JIS taper?
- Can anyone summarize Suntour's Superbe/Pro crank timeline and explain the switches between 130/144 and the tapers?
whatwolf is offline  
Old 06-13-12, 12:28 AM
  #2  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 8,030

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1078 Post(s)
Liked 510 Times in 364 Posts
Both the Superbe and Sprint cranksets used a Campy/ISO taper, well into the 1980's.

Recalling further, the bb spindle for these doubles, at least the later ones, was 107 or 109mm, so a current 103mm JIS bb would almost certainly be a satisfactory substitute for the much rarer, rather short ISO original (since the taper difference would add about 5mm to the effective spindle length in this case).

Suntour's lesser cranksets (Cyclone and below) were described as having a "VX" taper, which I can confirm was JIS.

The Superbe crankset initially used the 144mm bolt pattern and was made by Sugino.
Sugino already had a 144mm, ISO-tapered Mighty crankset in production, so Suntour's early Superbe may have been something of a disguised copy.
The Sprint and Superbe later featured a 130mm bolt pattern.

Last edited by dddd; 06-13-12 at 12:44 AM.
dddd is offline  
Old 06-13-12, 05:28 AM
  #3  
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,967
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Liked 201 Times in 129 Posts
Sun Tour's cranks were made for them by Sugino. The old style crank referenced above is a barely-disguised Sugino Mighty Competition. Sugino, so far as I can tell from research and measurement, used a Campagnolo taper end size for their top-tier crank (larger JIS for others in their line), though the symmetricality of them was different. Campy end size and ISO end size are two different things. Campy abandoned their previous standard for the ISO standard (smaller than their previous end size) around 1994. Was that a good thing? Not if you like C&V stuff.

If you want to know more, get a copy of Sutherland's Manual, say the 6th edition, and pore through the Bottom Bracket section; there's an incredible amount of data there. Sure, it's "theoretical" but it's based on measurement. The "random bike enthusiast on the Internet" who says they have X crank that works great on Y spindle usually leaves out a bunch of information, and the whole fit thing is affected by so many factors: BB cup fit to spindle (or, "where are the bearings with relation to the edges of the BB shell?"), tolerances, wear and tear on mating surfaces for used equipment, chainline for the cogset and # cogs back there. I see it as a rock-and hard-place situation, and you only really know when you try it out yourself with the stuff you've got. But Sutherland's is a good place to start for an educated guess, and at least they have a system for comparing different manufacturers/models, that gives you a good idea of the differences.
Charles Wahl is offline  
Old 06-13-12, 05:18 PM
  #4  
whatwolf
Unimatrix Zero
Thread Starter
 
whatwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
Sun Tour's cranks were made for them by Sugino. The old style crank referenced above is a barely-disguised Sugino Mighty Competition. Sugino, so far as I can tell from research and measurement, used a Campagnolo taper end size for their top-tier crank (larger JIS for others in their line), though the symmetricality of them was different. Campy end size and ISO end size are two different things. Campy abandoned their previous standard for the ISO standard (smaller than their previous end size) around 1994. Was that a good thing? Not if you like C&V stuff.

If you want to know more, get a copy of Sutherland's Manual, say the 6th edition, and pore through the Bottom Bracket section; there's an incredible amount of data there. Sure, it's "theoretical" but it's based on measurement. The "random bike enthusiast on the Internet" who says they have X crank that works great on Y spindle usually leaves out a bunch of information, and the whole fit thing is affected by so many factors: BB cup fit to spindle (or, "where are the bearings with relation to the edges of the BB shell?"), tolerances, wear and tear on mating surfaces for used equipment, chainline for the cogset and # cogs back there. I see it as a rock-and hard-place situation, and you only really know when you try it out yourself with the stuff you've got. But Sutherland's is a good place to start for an educated guess, and at least they have a system for comparing different manufacturers/models, that gives you a good idea of the differences.
Thanks, that is helpful. So my crank is likely a Sugino campy-copy and not JIS afterall. I know that old Campy tapers are not ISO, hence the switch in '94. I have read that it is actually closer to JIS, but I suppose I won't know till I try it.

I think that my options are the following right now, and I would love feedback and/or suggestions of specific models to try:

A) Buy new ISO Italian cartridge BB and check fit. (109mm? - Miche Track?)
B) Buy new JIS Italian cartridge BB and check fit. (103mm? - from VO?)
C) Both A & B.
D) Use a different crankset.

Last edited by whatwolf; 06-13-12 at 05:22 PM.
whatwolf is offline  
Old 06-13-12, 05:22 PM
  #5  
whatwolf
Unimatrix Zero
Thread Starter
 
whatwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I should note, I suppose, that my Superbe Pro cranks (144bcd; not the ones I want to use on the Italian frame) are currently working fine on a VO JIS taper BB on another bike.

So, in theory if the taper is the same on the earlier Superbe, I should be fine going with VO on my other frame. I hope.
whatwolf is offline  
Old 06-13-12, 07:04 PM
  #6  
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,967
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Liked 201 Times in 129 Posts
Another datum: Phil Wood has never sold a "Campy" taper, only ISO and JIS. They recommend JIS for use with the pre-ISO Campy cranks.
Charles Wahl is offline  
Old 06-13-12, 07:21 PM
  #7  
whatwolf
Unimatrix Zero
Thread Starter
 
whatwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
^Thanks for confirming that. Now I just need to figure out the length I need. I'll measure my Suberbe BB tomorrow.
whatwolf is offline  
Old 06-13-12, 07:25 PM
  #8  
zukahn1 
Senior Member
 
zukahn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fairplay Co
Posts: 8,198

Bikes: Current 79 Nishiki Custum Sport, Jeunet 620, notable previous bikes P.K. Ripper loop tail, Kawahara Laser Lite, Paramount Track full chrome, Raliegh Internatioanl, Motobecan Super Mirage. 59 Crown royak 3 speed

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 487 Post(s)
Liked 306 Times in 186 Posts
Another option is to just find a vintage currect spindle and some Italian cups and loose freeball the BB.
zukahn1 is offline  
Old 06-13-12, 10:32 PM
  #9  
masispecial
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 5 Posts
Sugino MW70 axle and appropriate cups are 100% interchangeable.
masispecial is offline  
Old 06-14-12, 05:10 AM
  #10  
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,967
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Liked 201 Times in 129 Posts
Originally Posted by whatwolf View Post
^Thanks for confirming that. Now I just need to figure out the length I need. I'll measure my Suberbe BB tomorrow.
I didn't say (and I'm not sure) whether Phil Wood would recommend a slightly shorter spindle than what one would use in a Campagnolo spindle, for a Campy crank. Theoretically, it should be a bit shorter, since JIS is supposedly "stubbier" than Campy; but wear of the crank sockets is a factor, too.The "SER" (shell-to-(spindle)end, right) concept that Sutherland's uses is a useful tool.

As masispecial said, the MW70 would be the right Sugino spindle for an Italian-threaded road Mighty Competition crank (115 mm wide). Sutherland's 6th-1995 lists Superbe and Sprint as taking a 109 mm spindle, as opposed to 115 for Sugino's MW70, but I suspect that's for track, since Sugino's track spindle is also 109 mm.

Last edited by Charles Wahl; 06-14-12 at 05:28 AM.
Charles Wahl is offline  
Old 06-14-12, 06:55 AM
  #11  
ColonelJLloyd 
Senior Member
 
ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Louisville
Posts: 8,382
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Suntour's lesser cranksets (Cyclone and below) were described as having a "VX" taper, which I can confirm was JIS.
I'm not sure that's true for the older Suntour/Sugino cranksets as I have a spindle marked "Cyclone" and the tapers look just like tapers on the first generation Superbe spindle I recently installed (they look much like Campy tapers; not JIS). Unfortunately for the OP, it's for a 68mm shell.
__________________
Bikes on Flickr
I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com
ColonelJLloyd is offline  
Old 06-14-12, 07:35 PM
  #12  
whatwolf
Unimatrix Zero
Thread Starter
 
whatwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd View Post
I'm not sure that's true for the older Suntour/Sugino cranksets as I have a spindle marked "Cyclone" and the tapers look just like tapers on the first generation Superbe spindle I recently installed (they look much like Campy tapers; not JIS). Unfortunately for the OP, it's for a 68mm shell.
Hm. Maybe the cutoff was below Cyclone level? Anyway, I already have an English cups/spindle set (I was running the Superbe crank on a different bike). I removed the cranks today to check out the spindle length/asymmetry.

What does this taper look like to you guys? I don't have an eye for these things yet.

I measured 113mm overall spindle length, with 58mm of that from the centerline to the very end of the drive side taper. Can someone help me make sense of this information as it relates to the purchase of a new cartridge BB?



whatwolf is offline  
Old 06-14-12, 08:14 PM
  #13  
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,967
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Liked 201 Times in 129 Posts
I'd use an IRD (Tange) unit if you want a cartridge. Here's the page for them, and the Italian cups. I've had a couple of these, and they're very smooth. Haven't worn one out yet.
https://store.interlocracing.com/bobrisandsqt.html
Regarding the QB-75 (more expensive) vs QB-55, the only difference is alloy or steel cups that come with the BB, English threaded. Since you're going to need to buy the Italian cups anyway, which are alloy, there's no advantage to the QB-75, unless you think you might want to use the same unit on an English-threaded frame.

Regarding size, the only lengths available that are close to what you need are 113, 115 and 118 mm. I believe that these BBs are all symmetrical, but you may wish to call IRD to confirm that. Since your frame-center-to-drive-side-spindle-end dimension is 58 mm, that comports with a 116 symmetrical spindle. The JIS taper ends are a bit stubbier than the Campy standard, so I'd go with the 113, and if need be, use a standard BB shim on the drive side if you need to move the chainline further right; the advantage of that would be that you would end up slightly asymmetrical, like your current setup is. But the 115 mm might work as-is without a shim; hard to say.

I don't know why the cartridge BB mfgrs don't make them slightly asymmetrical. Getting the right side correct is really more important than getting the left dead on, and with an asymmetrical unit, you could flip it over to make slight differences in the chainline. But we probably inhabit a world where it's too complicated to mark them, have consumers pay attention, or (God forbid) actually have to measure them when installing -- the dumb sort of world where the discourse on important issues like universal health care devolves to a breathtakingly arrogant and stupid analogy to broccoli, interjected by the shameless, pathetic laughing-stock sort of legal geniuses and statesmen whose ajudication we have to suffer these days.

Last edited by Charles Wahl; 06-14-12 at 08:40 PM.
Charles Wahl is offline  
Old 06-14-12, 08:42 PM
  #14  
whatwolf
Unimatrix Zero
Thread Starter
 
whatwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the link! I'll look into those. I feel like I'm getting a little closer to understanding this.

Here's a better view of the spindle I want to match:



and some tapers from the Phil Wood site which I'm sure you've seen:



I believe my BB looks most like the ISO example above. I also found a pdf copy of Sutherland's manual which gives the following specs (2nd row - apparently official spindle length is 112mm; SER matches with my measurement of 22mm) and suggests ISO as the closest taper match?



But the IRD units are JIS, correct? Maybe I'd be better off matching the SER of my current BB to the SER of an italian threaded ISO cartridge BB? Endless confusion! I guess I'll just start the trial & error process and see what happens. Thanks for all the help thus far, I really appreciate it.
Attached Images
whatwolf is offline  
Old 06-15-12, 05:38 AM
  #15  
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 3,967
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 388 Post(s)
Liked 201 Times in 129 Posts
Welcome to the annoying world of bottom bracket replacement/substitution. It helps to have friends or a shop with deep inventory, for sure.
Charles Wahl is offline  
Old 06-18-12, 02:01 AM
  #16  
masispecial
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
As masispecial said, the MW70 would be the right Sugino spindle for an Italian-threaded road Mighty Competition crank (115 mm wide). Sutherland's 6th-1995 lists Superbe and Sprint as taking a 109 mm spindle, as opposed to 115 for Sugino's MW70, but I suspect that's for track, since Sugino's track spindle is also 109 mm.
Sutherlands is referring to the 130pcd Sprint and Superbe Pro cranks that were introduced in the mid-80s.
The original 144pcd Superbe crank is a Sugino Mighty clone, and like Sugino Mighty, requires a longer, assymetric axle.
This is my set of late 70s Superbe cranks, running on a Sugino MW68 axle. Your Italian thread frame will require the MW70 axle.
Sugino Mighty, Suntour Superbe or Suntour Superbe Pro cups are all compatible.
Given that Sugino Mighty and Superbe are essentially clones of Campagnolo Nuovo Record, I would also expect a Nuovo Record BB or one of the Italian lookalikes such as OMAS would be compatible.
masispecial is offline  
Old 06-18-12, 02:22 AM
  #17  
masispecial
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by whatwolf View Post
I believe my BB looks most like the ISO example above. I also found a pdf copy of Sutherland's manual which gives the following specs (2nd row - apparently official spindle length is 112mm; SER matches with my measurement of 22mm) and suggests ISO as the closest taper match?


This refers to the last iteration of Superbe Pro, which had a 112mm symmetrical axle, presumably to move the chainline a smidge rightwards for 8 speed.

Last edited by masispecial; 06-18-12 at 02:27 AM.
masispecial is offline  
Old 06-18-12, 02:28 AM
  #18  
masispecial
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 5 Posts
This is exactly what you want:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sugino-MW-70...item19d051a3e0
masispecial is offline  
Old 06-18-12, 11:22 AM
  #19  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 8,030

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1078 Post(s)
Liked 510 Times in 364 Posts
Masispecial seems to understand the involved parts, and this is refreshing. Good advice.

Several prior posts however (made by others) tossed around info that I would like to try to set straight.

1) You can't look at a taper and draw reliable conclusions as to it's sizing. Cyclone was not ISO or Campy dimensioned, it was always JIS.

2) Sutherlands didn't always rely on their own "system", if that even involved any of their own actual measurements that is.
Their information includes errors on occasion which specifically led me to believe that they used published information (instead of measuring themselves) which may have come from middlemen in the distribution network and which appear to involve approximations.

3) Phil Wood also made generalizations, presumably to properly suit their own inventory to specific applications.
Trying to use their taper approximations applied to other brands of bb's makes the erroneous assumption that JIS and Campy (any year) are nearly the same (not quite true).

4) ISO and Campy taper are quite close, and variations of Campagnolo's tapers, while small, cover a range that is not specific to any particular point in time. But, it is always much safer assuming ISO and Campy are similar than assuming that JIS is equivalent to either.

5) A 58mm C-R measurement on a 113mm spindle indicates that 3mm has been added to the right end of a symmetrical 110mm spindle.
Alternately, it could also be considered as being a 113mm symmetrical spindle that has been offset 1.5mm to the right, which both shortens the left end by 1.5mm and lengthens the right end by the same 1.5mm.
Descriptions used in the industry commonly refer to such spindles as having "3mm offset", which is technically incorrect, since only the right side of the crankset is offset 3mm and not the entire spindle. This is an example of semantics at it's best I suppose.

6) Generally, JIS spindles add 2-3mm of effective length to EACH END of a Campag or ISO spindle of the same overal length, more like 2mm in the case of moderately used cranks.

7) 1970's and earlier Stronglight tapers measure smallest of all, smaller than Campy or ISO. Later production supposedly has gone to a JIS taper, which I cannot conform at all.

Last edited by dddd; 06-18-12 at 11:32 AM.
dddd is offline  
Old 06-18-12, 03:45 PM
  #20  
whatwolf
Unimatrix Zero
Thread Starter
 
whatwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by masispecial View Post
Yes, but it's too expensive and wouldn't arrive for at least a month
whatwolf is offline  
Old 06-18-12, 03:52 PM
  #21  
whatwolf
Unimatrix Zero
Thread Starter
 
whatwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 944
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Masispecial seems to understand the involved parts, and this is refreshing. Good advice.

Several prior posts however (made by others) tossed around info that I would like to try to set straight.

1) You can't look at a taper and draw reliable conclusions as to it's sizing. Cyclone was not ISO or Campy dimensioned, it was always JIS.

2) Sutherlands didn't always rely on their own "system", if that even involved any of their own actual measurements that is.
Their information includes errors on occasion which specifically led me to believe that they used published information (instead of measuring themselves) which may have come from middlemen in the distribution network and which appear to involve approximations.

3) Phil Wood also made generalizations, presumably to properly suit their own inventory to specific applications.
Trying to use their taper approximations applied to other brands of bb's makes the erroneous assumption that JIS and Campy (any year) are nearly the same (not quite true).

4) ISO and Campy taper are quite close, and variations of Campagnolo's tapers, while small, cover a range that is not specific to any particular point in time. But, it is always much safer assuming ISO and Campy are similar than assuming that JIS is equivalent to either.

5) A 58mm C-R measurement on a 113mm spindle indicates that 3mm has been added to the right end of a symmetrical 110mm spindle.
Alternately, it could also be considered as being a 113mm symmetrical spindle that has been offset 1.5mm to the right, which both shortens the left end by 1.5mm and lengthens the right end by the same 1.5mm.
Descriptions used in the industry commonly refer to such spindles as having "3mm offset", which is technically incorrect, since only the right side of the crankset is offset 3mm and not the entire spindle. This is an example of semantics at it's best I suppose.

6) Generally, JIS spindles add 2-3mm of effective length to EACH END of a Campag or ISO spindle of the same overal length, more like 2mm in the case of moderately used cranks.

7) 1970's and earlier Stronglight tapers measure smallest of all, smaller than Campy or ISO. Later production supposedly has gone to a JIS taper, which I cannot conform at all.
Thanks for writing all this out! Most of it I understand.

Your point #5 has me a bit confused though. Given that an ISO spindle is probably close enough (I'm willing to buy it and give it a shot), and that the original spindle measures 113mm asymmetrically , and that I want to closely match the chainline: I should then go with a spindle close to 116, no? (58mm doubled). It seems that both Miche Track BBs and Campy Veloce BBs are available in 115mm lengths with Italian cups. Close enough? I am going to be using a single chainring in the outer position, so if it were to end up a couple mm's inward I don't think that would be a big deal as long as the arms clear the frame.
whatwolf is offline  
Old 06-18-12, 03:58 PM
  #22  
Leukybear 
THE STUFFED
 
Leukybear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 12,680

Bikes: Rock Lobster; EAI Bareknuckle; Evil Insurgent

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Not to hijack or anything but since we're talking about superbe track cranksets and suntour experts are here; why is so hard to find the 2nd revision superbe track pro crankset in mint condition??
__________________
pɐǝɹ oʇ sᴉ sᴉɥʇ ƃuᴉʎouuɐ ʍoɥ ǝǝs

Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Pound sign: Kilo TT
Leukybear is offline  
Old 06-18-12, 05:42 PM
  #23  
masispecial
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by whatwolf View Post
Yes, but it's too expensive and wouldn't arrive for at least a month
Given that bottom brackets are consumables, and that Italian thread is not so common, this seems like a bargain.
I would be surprised if it took more than 10 days to get to anywhere in the world.
masispecial is offline  
Old 06-18-12, 06:26 PM
  #24  
masispecial
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by whatwolf View Post
Campy Veloce BBs are available in 115mm lengths with Italian cups. Close enough? I am going to be using a single chainring in the outer position, so if it were to end up a couple mm's inward I don't think that would be a big deal as long as the arms clear the frame.
These have a symetrical axle. You may be able to get the correct chainline if you put a 3mm spacer under the RH cup.
masispecial is offline  
Old 06-18-12, 07:34 PM
  #25  
Chicago Al 
Senior Member
 
Chicago Al's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago, the leafy NW side
Posts: 2,522

Bikes: 1974 Motobecane Grand Record, 1987 Miyata Pro, 1988 Bob Jackson Lady Mixte (wife's), others in the family

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked 56 Times in 32 Posts
This is one of the things I love about this forum, and the reason I read most threads, whether or not it's immediately relevant or interesting to me. There is always the opportunity to learn something.

In this case I have learned, probably, why the (beautiful) Sugino Mighty Tour crankset I recently put on my wife's Bob Jackson mixte, in place of the 80s one that was there before, on a modern cartridge BB, rides noticeably closer, enough that the small chainring barely clears the stay. (The BB and crankset were from last year's rebuild, with a mechanic friend.) Evidently the Mighty Tour, being from the era of Campy clones, has an ISO taper, so it slides just a bit further down the axle than the 80s one, which was JIS. The chainring DOES clear so I'm not really worried about it but still wanted to understand what was going on, and now I have at least a pretty good idea.

Thanks for the info and thanks Whatwolf for the question!
__________________
I never think I have hit hard, unless it rebounds.

- Dr Samuel Johnson
Chicago Al is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.