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BB threads on a 1978 Motobecane Le Champion Frame?

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BB threads on a 1978 Motobecane Le Champion Frame?

Old 06-15-12, 12:27 PM
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the zarathu
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BB threads on a 1978 Motobecane Le Champion Frame?

I recently started restoring my old custom Motobecane Grand Touring from its cheap 1020 tubing to a Reynolds 531 almost custom Le Champion Frame. I put a Phil Wood sealed BB on the old Touring years ago. Since I am without the tools for Phil and the TA Specialties Touring crank remover, I let the local bike shop do that for me. UNFORTUNATELY, they did not remember to check the threads when they found that the Touring was different than the Le Champion, and just put on the Stronglight that came with the frame.

I'D REALLY RATHER HAVE THE PHIL WOOD. Without taking it all apart again they have no way of know the threading. Does anyone here know what threading Motobecane used on the 1978 Le Champion frame?

Eric
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Old 06-15-12, 01:08 PM
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99.9% certain it's French.

Are you looking to buy French thread cups for the Phil Wood?


I'm a bit confused by the whole story.
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Old 06-15-12, 01:45 PM
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Yes it's hard to understand what this process was/is. But it there's a difference in threading between a Moto Grand Touring and a Moto Le Champion, it has to be because one is (probably) French threading and the other Swiss. But it's just a guess based on what threading was common on the vintage Motos we usually see...if one was a very much later vintage it could be BSC threading.
In any case, if your goal is to put a Phil BB in the new frame, the proper rings should still be available in any threading: Fr, BSC or Swiss (or even Italian, but you shouldn't have that unless the BB's been re-tapped).
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Old 06-15-12, 01:54 PM
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I have a 1978 Team Champion that's "definitely French" as they used to say. But assumptions will only get you so far.
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Old 06-15-12, 03:45 PM
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Well.... I was 99% sure that the Grand Touring was French. In fact I remember the tech who installed the Phil in the Grand touring in 1976 telling me that it had french threads and had to get them for it. But These French threads did not fit when they went to put the Phil in; they used the Stronglight that came with the frame instead. So I suspect, that, as most of the Motobecane frames in the late 70's, it is actually Swiss.

But I'm not interested in leaving it in the shop at the increasingly hectic rental season now in on Mount Desert Island(home of Acadia National Park) to check that.

And yes, I'm interested in trading the Stronglight BB for my sealed Phil Wood BB. It will be done in September or October, but before the world ends on December 21, 2012. And yes, Phil Wood still makes or stocks the appropriate threads to use the Sealed BB in my bike.

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Old 06-15-12, 04:14 PM
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Unworthy1 has a point, it could be Swiss but I thought that by the late 70's they were all French.
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Old 06-15-12, 05:03 PM
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can we agree that 'swiss' brackets use 'french' threading diameter but, directionally, the fixed cup is left-hand threaded? and, this direction of the fixed cup is the only difference between swiss and french cups? thanks.

my '76 g.record shell is swiss.
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Old 06-15-12, 05:26 PM
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[h=2]From Sheldon Brown's site:

Bottom Bracket Threading[/h]
Bottom brackets come in different sizes, according to the nationality of the frame:
[TABLE="class: tgrid, width: 808"]
[TR]
[TH]Standard:[/TH]
[TH]Threading[/TH]
[TH]Adjustable
(left) cup
direction[/TH]
[TH]Fixed
(right) cup
direction[/TH]
[TH]Shell
Width[/TH]
[TH]Applications/Notes[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]British
I.S.O.[/TH]
[TD="align: justify"]1.370" X 24 tpi
1.375" X 24 tpi[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]right[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]left[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]Standard 68 mm
O.S. 73 mm[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]The overwhelming majority of bicycles in current production.
British and I.S.O. are interchangeable.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]ISIS Overdrive[/TH]
[TD="align: justify"]48 x 1.5 mm[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]right[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]left[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]68mm
100 mm[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]New proposed standard oversized system.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Italian[/TH]
[TD="align: justify"]36 mm X 24 tpi[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]right[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]right
(wrong!)
[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]70 mm[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]Italian and some high-end French bicycles.
Prone to problems due to the right threaded fixed cup,
which tends to unscrew itself in use.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]French[/TH]
[TD="align: justify"]35 mm X 1mm (25.4 tpi)[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]right[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]right
(wrong!)
[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]68 mm[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]Obsolete, used on older French bicycles.
Prone to problems due to the right threaded fixed cup,
which tends to unscrew itself in use.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Swiss[/TH]
[TD="align: justify"]35 mm X 1mm (25.4 tpi)[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]right[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]left[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]68 mm[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]Same thread as French, but fixed cup is left threaded for reliability.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]Raleigh[/TH]
[TD="align: justify"]1 3/8" X 26 tpi[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]right[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]left[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]71mm
76 mm[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]Older British-made Raleighs, especially 3 speeds.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]O.P.C.
Ashtabula[/TH]
[TD="align: justify"]Male threads
on crank
24 tpi (most)
28 tpi
(Schwinn,
Mongoose)[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"][/TD]
[TD="align: justify"][/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]
68 mm (2.68") wide
51.3 mm (2.02") i.d.
(approximate)[/TD]
[TD="align: justify"]Older U.S. bikes, BMX, Juvenile bikes,
Department store bikes.
24 tpi cranks use #66 retainers, with 10 5/16" balls.
28 tpi cranks use #64 retainers, with 9 5/16" balls.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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Old 06-15-12, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by shnibop View Post
Unworthy1 has a point, it could be Swiss but I thought that by the late 70's they were all French.
I have had several late 1970s/early 1980s Motobecanes, and all but one had Swiss bb. The only one (thankfully) that was french was my 1979 Tandem. Motobecane loved Swiss bb, and used them for several years (at least on bikes I have owned).
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