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Brooks customer service stinks

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Brooks customer service stinks

Old 07-02-12, 08:35 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
Snip

Last month we lost lost True-Temper. In some small way I take blame as I had a small issue with them years ago and never forgave them. I regret that now.

snip
I can't believe it! Are you saying that the only source of S3 tubing is now gone?
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Old 07-02-12, 10:38 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
What happened in 2007? Company change hands?
The company changed hands in 2002, but the newest one I have after that date is 2007. But if I were to guess I'd say the fixie boom had more to due with it than the sale of the company. Demand increased dramatically. and Brooks saddles and accessories became a fashion item.
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Old 07-02-12, 11:53 AM
  #78  
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Has anyone here tried the "Select" natural hide Swedish leather Brooks? I'm curious if they are actually as stiff as they're touted to be, and if this is what corresponds to what an old Pro model was like.
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Old 07-02-12, 12:22 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
Jaa, the newer saddles are much thinner leather and the Select are marketed as 'for high mileage cyclists'.
Do you have a measurement? I just measured my new B17 Narrow at 5mm thick at the edges. I'm reading everywhere that the Select is thicker but no numbers.

You guys are scaring me but my saddle is fine so far.
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Old 07-02-12, 12:47 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by hairnet View Post
Do you have a measurement? I just measured my new B17 Narrow at 5mm thick at the edges. I'm reading everywhere that the Select is thicker but no numbers.

You guys are scaring me but my saddle is fine so far.
I just went to my garage and measured a bunch of saddles. The difference in thickness is noticeable simply by touch. Older Brooks B-17s (pre-2002) measure between 5.5 and 7mm in thickness. Newer (post 2007) B-17s measure between 4 and 5mm in thickness. The pre-2002 Conquest I have measures 6mm on one side and 7.3 on the other. Brooks is clearly using thinner leather than they did in the past. It would have been nice to tell all of us who supported Brooks through their dark time in the 1990s that they have changed their product specs. When the fixie craze dies there will still be those of us who actually like Brooks saddles for what they are, not what they represent.

The gall in Brooks telling me that it's my fault that my rail broke due to improper tension when they changed the quality of the leather, meaning that it needs to be tensioned much more often.

EDIT: All of my saddles were measured underneath the 'B' in Brooks, about 10mm above the edge of the saddle.
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Old 07-02-12, 02:21 PM
  #81  
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Is it the case that Brooks can't find good leather? Or is it the ominous and cynical cost reduction panic that has finally affected Brooks?
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Old 07-02-12, 03:39 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
Has anyone here tried the "Select" natural hide Swedish leather Brooks? I'm curious if they are actually as stiff as they're touted to be, and if this is what corresponds to what an old Pro model was like.
I have a Swallow Select that I purchased for a song on another forum.

Fellow that I bought it from rode it for 300 miles and decided it was too stiff.

Brooks advertises this saddle as a "high mileage" saddle.

Certainly stiffer than my Swifts.

I'll probably use the Swallow Select on my Walter Croll project.

Btw I have been nothing but thrilled with the Swifts I purchased three years ago.

Super comfy on all day rides.
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Old 07-02-12, 06:28 PM
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My B.17 was bad enough that the outline of the nose bracket was viewable through the leather? By comparison my 70's B.15's feel like double thickness bike box cardboard. I think it's a "new" money saving move, not a "Lower quality for the entry level saddles, been there since the old days." kinda thing. I will definitely be looking at any future Brooks closely, before I plunk down any cash. If it looks old, I will feel more sure about it.,,,,BD
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Old 07-02-12, 10:57 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by anixi View Post
Is it the case that Brooks can't find good leather? Or is it the ominous and cynical cost reduction panic that has finally affected Brooks?
Considering that they can find the leather for the Select line of saddles I'd say the latter.

Plus, they are now marketing their products as lifestyle accessories rather than simply cycling gear, which is usually a sign of reduced quality as a company moves to maximize profits and meet demand. The vast majority of people riding a few km to the coffee shop or bar wouldn't know the difference.
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Old 07-03-12, 04:15 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Bikedued View Post
If it looks old, I will feel more sure about it.,,,,BD
Sad but, true of so many things these days.
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Old 07-03-12, 06:19 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Ziemas View Post
Considering that they can find the leather for the Select line of saddles I'd say the latter.

Plus, they are now marketing their products as lifestyle accessories rather than simply cycling gear, which is usually a sign of reduced quality as a company moves to maximize profits and meet demand. The vast majority of people riding a few km to the coffee shop or bar wouldn't know the difference.
Maybe yes, maybe no.

All of my riding buddies ride either Swifts or Pros.

Seem to be fairly well informed when they bought theirs.

See, I see this marketing as a move to keep their company viable.

Companies need to refresh their marketing and image constantly to stay in front of their customers' faces.

This isn't a bad thing!

In addition, the kids at the coffee shops around here are probably more worried about theft issues related to the saddles than looking cool.

There is perceived value in a Brooks saddle.

Finally, I'm currently on 1,200 miles on my John Hollands this season.

I have a three year old Swift on the Hollands that is broken in perfectly and I could ride all day in jeans if I felt like it.

I have no idea whether it will last for twenty years, but if I get ten I'll be thrilled.

I don't buy/expect any bike related item, other than framesets, to last that long.

Why?

I ride my bikes often and I tend to rack up big miles annually.

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Old 07-03-12, 06:57 AM
  #87  
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Hate to say it, but it's kind of like a Schwinn in Wal Mart. It has such a strong recognition, the customer generally thinks it MUST be worth every penny of that $150. Little do they know it's a shadow of it's former self. I still run into customers on the sales floor, that think Schwinn is going strong and owned by the family still. It's a little sad.,,,,BD
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Old 07-03-12, 08:41 AM
  #88  
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I have no doubt that Brooks can find any leather they want.

The leather I've been using, to recover ruined saddles, is awesomely thick. It is from Mexico and is not especially noble stuff. More than one person (who know what they're talking about) have suggested it's too thick. Indeed it is so thick that I thin it a lot around the edges, which would make it very hard for anyone to actually measure it. But it makes for a very hard saddle. My saddles, when finished, are as hard as any Brooks I've ever held in my hands. The one on my commuter bike, with 2000+ miles on it (I have been using it ever since I made it in September) is still hard, though it has sagged and stretched a bit.

From this I would conclude that Brooks saddles are the way they are because Brooks has determined that this is what the customer wants. Certainly they could make harder saddles; but they probably get more complaints about saddles being too hard than too soft.
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Old 07-03-12, 08:56 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
I have no doubt that Brooks can find any leather they want.

The leather I've been using, to recover ruined saddles, is awesomely thick. It is from Mexico and is not especially noble stuff. More than one person (who know what they're talking about) have suggested it's too thick. Indeed it is so thick that I thin it a lot around the edges, which would make it very hard for anyone to actually measure it. But it makes for a very hard saddle. My saddles, when finished, are as hard as any Brooks I've ever held in my hands. The one on my commuter bike, with 2000+ miles on it (I have been using it ever since I made it in September) is still hard, though it has sagged and stretched a bit.

From this I would conclude that Brooks saddles are the way they are because Brooks has determined that this is what the customer wants. Certainly they could make harder saddles; but they probably get more complaints about saddles being too hard than too soft.
Good points.

My Swallow Select is as hard as a rock and beautifully finished.

Can't wait to use it and break it in to my tastes.

The Swifts are softer and really superb right off the shelf for me.

Definitely a plush ride right out of the gate, for sure.

BTW RHM, do you offer your service to forum members?
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Old 07-03-12, 05:16 PM
  #90  
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My two year old, daily ridden Team Pro Classic is a much better quality than any B17, new or old, that I've handled. It's only a few dollars more expensive and directly comparable to my 70's vintage Professional.
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Old 07-03-12, 05:33 PM
  #91  
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This may not have any bearing on overall quality from the C&V era, but I will point out that the two best Brooks Professionals I've owned are both stamped with 1973 build dates. Nothing short of art:



Many thanks to Dane for the brown one in the foreground.

-Kurt
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Old 07-03-12, 05:35 PM
  #92  
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Maybe global warming affected cows yeild thinner leather?? Or maybe it's the BGH that affects them.......
I wonder what they do with all those buffalo hides these days???
I saw some Bison hotdogs at Costco for a crazy 15 bucks a pack!

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Old 07-03-12, 06:04 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Chombi View Post
Maybe global warming affected cows yeild thinner leather??
Nah, it's those darn windmills all over the place keeping them from getting a good night's sleep.
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Old 07-03-12, 07:34 PM
  #94  
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I have 3 brooks saddles that I bought new within the last 7 or 8 years. Swift ti with more than ten thousand miles on it now, pro with about 500 miles on it, and a B17 special with a couple thousand miles on it. None have ever been tensioned and have never needed it. None have sagged. They get proofided once or twice a year at most. Can't vouch for the brooks saddles the last couple of years or their customer service, but I've had no problems with mine and would buy another one if I needed it.
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Old 07-03-12, 08:13 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by smallpox champ View Post
My two year old, daily ridden Team Pro Classic is a much better quality than any B17, new or old, that I've handled. It's only a few dollars more expensive and directly comparable to my 70's vintage Professional.
That's really good news that they've not touched the higher end Pros. If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to get me one of them Titanium'ed Team Pros, for sure.
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Old 07-03-12, 11:57 PM
  #96  
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I love Brooks mythology threads. Great quantum fantasy.
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Old 07-04-12, 12:06 AM
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Of course Brooks customer service stinks. They have to deal with all of your smelly warranty saddles.



-Kurt
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Old 07-04-12, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
Of course Brooks customer service stinks. They have to deal with all of your smelly warranty saddles.



-Kurt
Customer: "I want to return this saddle for a refund."
Brooks: "But this saddle is worn out and stinks."
Customer: "You're telling me!!"
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Old 07-04-12, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RFC View Post
Customer: "I want to return this saddle for a refund."
Brooks: "But this saddle is worn out and stinks."
Customer: "You're telling me!!"
Customer: "This saddle is as hard as a rock."
Brooks: "You have to break it in."
Customer: "I've been riding all month and I'm still sore."
Brooks: "Do you drink PBR and own a pair of skinny jeans?"
Customer: "Yea."
Brooks: "You're a hipster. By nature, you're not supposed to use rational thought."
Customer: "So what should I do?"
Brooks: "You didn't buy this saddle for comfort, you bought it to show off to your friends when you trackstand at Critical Mass while chugging PBR. Because of this, you never actually sit on the saddle anyway - and even if you tried, you'd wind up impaling your intoxicated self on some public art structure in the process. Why don't you go Occupy something and leave us alone?"
Customer: "Oh, I get it now."
Brooks: "That's right. Off you go."
Customer: "Thanks. By the way, where's the nearest Apple store?"

-Kurt
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Old 07-04-12, 06:14 AM
  #100  
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You forgot to add a few English sayings like "There's a good lad" or "Bob's your Uncle", but pretty funny nonetheless,,,,BD
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