Why would you do this to a Paramount ?
06-26-12, 06:27 AM
#26
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Because it seems to be a project driven by the Grant Petersonaization of everything ?
Because it cost a boatload of money, and seems to have been driven by the need to feel "special" ?
Because it appears not to be "an improvement" as evidenced by its continuing non use ?
Because .......................................well, you get my drift, I think.
Because it cost a boatload of money, and seems to have been driven by the need to feel "special" ?
Because it appears not to be "an improvement" as evidenced by its continuing non use ?
Because .......................................well, you get my drift, I think.
If you're going to question anyone who spends money on things that they don't use or need, you're going to find yourself pretty unhappy in our society. MORE STUFF, MORE STUFF, MORE STUFF!
06-26-12, 06:27 AM
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He kept all the original parts and didn't destroy the frame (well, hopefully the chainstays are OK with the kickstand).
Regardless of how much coin he dropped on the modern components, a buyer could return it to original very easily and sell them off.
Regardless of how much coin he dropped on the modern components, a buyer could return it to original very easily and sell them off.
06-26-12, 06:31 AM
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I get your drift, I just don't agree and think you're being awfully judgmental. Are you arguing that he'd have ridden more had it been preserved? There's nothing I see to justify that conclusion. What does GP have to do with it? He likes how GP specs bikes so he used a similar approach. I'm not seeing a problem...GP specs bikes with an eye to durability at fair cost. What's wrong with spending money on bikes? I can think of far worse things to spend cash on, and that's his business. I typically don't tell others how to spend cash, and if he has it to spend, good for him! Looks like an improvement to me - it has brakes that will actually stop the bike.
Jeesh, we haven't had a good fixie rant around here in a while.
Maybe we should have one of those and leave this guy's nice bike alone.
Makes as much sense.
06-26-12, 06:32 AM
#29
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I'm not seeing the problem - he updated a bike to modern, BETTER (and yes, modern stuff works better from nearly any objective measure but durability) parts to enjoy it more. The best laid plans of mice and men - he didn't ride it. That happens to a LOT (dare I say most?) bikes sold. He even kept the original parts! This is no sacrilege and he even made it look pretty sharp...I actually like what he did here.
As far as performance, I'm a big fan of combining modern parts spec with steel...I also like the aesthetics.
As far as performance, I'm a big fan of combining modern parts spec with steel...I also like the aesthetics.
My father and I used to have the same argument over cars and trucks. He was an antique auto collector and owned several vintage vehicles restored to pristine condition...........
I can see and appreciate both approaches. The only time I get unsettled is when someone who doesn't have a clue takes a classic bike and irreverseably screws it up for the sake of "customizing" it.
I can see and appreciate both approaches. The only time I get unsettled is when someone who doesn't have a clue takes a classic bike and irreverseably screws it up for the sake of "customizing" it.
components that it comes with, would keep and ride it as now configured ?
Honestly ? All kinds really do make the world go around..
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06-26-12, 06:35 AM
#30
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I get your drift, I just don't agree
and think you're being awfully judgmental.
If you're going to question anyone who spends money on things that
they don't use or need, you're going to find yourself pretty unhappy in our society.
MORE STUFF, MORE STUFF, MORE STUFF!
and think you're being awfully judgmental.
If you're going to question anyone who spends money on things that
they don't use or need, you're going to find yourself pretty unhappy in our society.
MORE STUFF, MORE STUFF, MORE STUFF!
I drink a lot. It helps a little..........................
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06-26-12, 06:35 AM
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It's tricky to rock a rhythm, to rock a rhythm on time....
06-26-12, 06:41 AM
#33
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Many people have more money than time.
Many people have more bikes than time to ride them.
Many people LOVE to work on bikes. Personally, I find wrenching on bikes every bit as enjoyable as riding them.
There is nothing like the thrill of spec-ing out a new build and dreaming and ordering parts. Doing the research on what goes well with what other components and using your artistic image of what it should all look like when it is put together.
The fact that the final product was not ridden much does not in any way mean that it isn't a good bike. There are many reasons why someone doesn't ride a bike. Perhaps they want a super-clean museum-quality bike to display in their home. Perhaps they are putting serious miles training on a different-purpose bike. Maybe money/job/family commitments changed between the time the bike was conceived and started and when it was finally put together.
In an earlier thread discussing "should I do X for cosmetic reasons" I said that the OP should do what they like -because no matter how HARD someone tries to please other people there will always be SOMEBODY who isn't happy with what you have done for a variety of reasons. Screw them. Do your own thing, ride your own ride, be yourself. If others don't like it then it is their problem.
Many people have more bikes than time to ride them.
Many people LOVE to work on bikes. Personally, I find wrenching on bikes every bit as enjoyable as riding them.
There is nothing like the thrill of spec-ing out a new build and dreaming and ordering parts. Doing the research on what goes well with what other components and using your artistic image of what it should all look like when it is put together.
The fact that the final product was not ridden much does not in any way mean that it isn't a good bike. There are many reasons why someone doesn't ride a bike. Perhaps they want a super-clean museum-quality bike to display in their home. Perhaps they are putting serious miles training on a different-purpose bike. Maybe money/job/family commitments changed between the time the bike was conceived and started and when it was finally put together.
In an earlier thread discussing "should I do X for cosmetic reasons" I said that the OP should do what they like -because no matter how HARD someone tries to please other people there will always be SOMEBODY who isn't happy with what you have done for a variety of reasons. Screw them. Do your own thing, ride your own ride, be yourself. If others don't like it then it is their problem.
06-26-12, 06:42 AM
#34
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the opportunity to reiterate it........Why ?
Not, "Is it right or wrong?" Not, "Oh my God, Martha, will
you look at what Fred's done now ?". Not, "This is the end
of the world and we'll all go to hell because of it."
Just, "Why ?"........thus far I've gotten no satisfying answer.
It all seems to be, "Because he could."
And from the gitgo you'll have difficulty convincing me this
is for performance improvement.........I have one of these
that I ride that is maybe 5 years newer. It works fine.
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06-26-12, 06:47 AM
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Many people have more money than time.
Many people have more bikes than time to ride them.
Many people LOVE to work on bikes. Personally, I find wrenching on bikes every bit as enjoyable as riding them.
There is nothing like the thrill of spec-ing out a new build and dreaming and ordering parts. Doing the research on what goes well with what other components and using your artistic image of what it should all look like when it is put together.
The fact that the final product was not ridden much does not in any way mean that it isn't a good bike. There are many reasons why someone doesn't ride a bike. Perhaps they want a super-clean museum-quality bike to display in their home. Perhaps they are putting serious miles training on a different-purpose bike. Maybe money/job/family commitments changed between the time the bike was conceived and started and when it was finally put together.
In an earlier thread discussing "should I do X for cosmetic reasons" I said that the OP should do what they like -because no matter how HARD someone tries to please other people there will always be SOMEBODY who isn't happy with what you have done for a variety of reasons. Screw them. Do your own thing, ride your own ride, be yourself. If others don't like it then it is their problem.
Many people have more bikes than time to ride them.
Many people LOVE to work on bikes. Personally, I find wrenching on bikes every bit as enjoyable as riding them.
There is nothing like the thrill of spec-ing out a new build and dreaming and ordering parts. Doing the research on what goes well with what other components and using your artistic image of what it should all look like when it is put together.
The fact that the final product was not ridden much does not in any way mean that it isn't a good bike. There are many reasons why someone doesn't ride a bike. Perhaps they want a super-clean museum-quality bike to display in their home. Perhaps they are putting serious miles training on a different-purpose bike. Maybe money/job/family commitments changed between the time the bike was conceived and started and when it was finally put together.
In an earlier thread discussing "should I do X for cosmetic reasons" I said that the OP should do what they like -because no matter how HARD someone tries to please other people there will always be SOMEBODY who isn't happy with what you have done for a variety of reasons. Screw them. Do your own thing, ride your own ride, be yourself. If others don't like it then it is their problem.
06-26-12, 06:55 AM
#36
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So you're of the Ricky Nelson school, then ?
In an earlier thread discussing "should I do X for cosmetic reasons" I said that the OP should do what they like -because no matter how HARD someone tries to please other people there will always be SOMEBODY who isn't happy with what you have done for a variety of reasons. Screw them. Do your own thing, ride your own ride, be yourself. If others don't like it then it is their problem.
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06-26-12, 07:24 AM
#37
You gonna eat that?
He said he has all the original parts. Geez, what more do you want?
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I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
06-26-12, 07:32 AM
#38
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06-26-12, 07:48 AM
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I think it is a person's right to modify his bike in any way he sees fit - but that doesn't necessarily make it smart.
I can see from the responses that the tolerance-band for "what's smart" is a whole lot wider for some than it is for others.
I can see from the responses that the tolerance-band for "what's smart" is a whole lot wider for some than it is for others.
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06-26-12, 07:51 AM
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The saving grace for that bike in my opinion is that he did save the original parts and his changes can be undone. I wish more people would think that far ahead when they customize their vintage ride.
In my view it is a shame to take an original survivor bike and customize it irrevocably. There is something about an older bike that still carries the original parts as the designer intended and still matches the catalog photos. It's easy to customize a bike. Almost anyone can install any part and customize their bike, but sourcing the correct original parts, in the correct color and style, made at the correct time in history is very difficult. Now you have a reference standard to follow, not just do your own thing.
After you beat your head on the wall trying to find parts and finally restore a bike back to original, you gain a greater appreciation for original bikes. Anyone can customize, only some can restore properly. I guess I just have a greater appreciation for the restored bikes on this forum than the customized bikes. Having been an auto mechanic for 20 years I've replaced thousands of parts on thousands of cars. Hanging some new and different parts on a bicycle just doesn't make me excited, it's doing the proper research and sourcing the correct parts that's the challenge.
In my view it is a shame to take an original survivor bike and customize it irrevocably. There is something about an older bike that still carries the original parts as the designer intended and still matches the catalog photos. It's easy to customize a bike. Almost anyone can install any part and customize their bike, but sourcing the correct original parts, in the correct color and style, made at the correct time in history is very difficult. Now you have a reference standard to follow, not just do your own thing.
After you beat your head on the wall trying to find parts and finally restore a bike back to original, you gain a greater appreciation for original bikes. Anyone can customize, only some can restore properly. I guess I just have a greater appreciation for the restored bikes on this forum than the customized bikes. Having been an auto mechanic for 20 years I've replaced thousands of parts on thousands of cars. Hanging some new and different parts on a bicycle just doesn't make me excited, it's doing the proper research and sourcing the correct parts that's the challenge.
Last edited by Snydermann; 06-26-12 at 08:15 AM.
06-26-12, 07:52 AM
#41
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Because it seems to be a project driven by the Grant Petersonaization of everything ?
Because it cost a boatload of money, and seems to have been driven by the need to feel "special" ?
Because it appears not to be "an improvement" as evidenced by its continuing non use ?
Because .......................................well, you get my drift, I think.
Because it cost a boatload of money, and seems to have been driven by the need to feel "special" ?
Because it appears not to be "an improvement" as evidenced by its continuing non use ?
Because .......................................well, you get my drift, I think.
Why would you presume upset, my friend ? Befuddling is a good word.
To do this project as described, with a boatload of cash invested, a
"special" relationship with your very own Rivendell mechanic, and a
completed project that you "lack the time to ride".......that, sir, is
befuddling.....................................
To do this project as described, with a boatload of cash invested, a
"special" relationship with your very own Rivendell mechanic, and a
completed project that you "lack the time to ride".......that, sir, is
befuddling.....................................
06-26-12, 08:10 AM
#42
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Many people have more money than time.
Many people have more bikes than time to ride them.
Many people LOVE to work on bikes. Personally, I find wrenching on bikes every bit as enjoyable as riding them.
There is nothing like the thrill of spec-ing out a new build and dreaming and ordering parts. Doing the research on what goes well with what other components and using your artistic image of what it should all look like when it is put together.
The fact that the final product was not ridden much does not in any way mean that it isn't a good bike. There are many reasons why someone doesn't ride a bike. Perhaps they want a super-clean museum-quality bike to display in their home. Perhaps they are putting serious miles training on a different-purpose bike. Maybe money/job/family commitments changed between the time the bike was conceived and started and when it was finally put together.
In an earlier thread discussing "should I do X for cosmetic reasons" I said that the OP should do what they like -because no matter how HARD someone tries to please other people there will always be SOMEBODY who isn't happy with what you have done for a variety of reasons. Screw them. Do your own thing, ride your own ride, be yourself. If others don't like it then it is their problem.
Many people have more bikes than time to ride them.
Many people LOVE to work on bikes. Personally, I find wrenching on bikes every bit as enjoyable as riding them.
There is nothing like the thrill of spec-ing out a new build and dreaming and ordering parts. Doing the research on what goes well with what other components and using your artistic image of what it should all look like when it is put together.
The fact that the final product was not ridden much does not in any way mean that it isn't a good bike. There are many reasons why someone doesn't ride a bike. Perhaps they want a super-clean museum-quality bike to display in their home. Perhaps they are putting serious miles training on a different-purpose bike. Maybe money/job/family commitments changed between the time the bike was conceived and started and when it was finally put together.
In an earlier thread discussing "should I do X for cosmetic reasons" I said that the OP should do what they like -because no matter how HARD someone tries to please other people there will always be SOMEBODY who isn't happy with what you have done for a variety of reasons. Screw them. Do your own thing, ride your own ride, be yourself. If others don't like it then it is their problem.
This post is very eloquently describes what I love about the the whole C+V bicycle hobby.
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06-26-12, 08:16 AM
#44
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Oh, and I personally love what the seller did with that Paramount.
This brings up the whole "should I restore to original?", "should I leave it alone?", or "should I modernize/customize/upgrade/etc?" debate.
There are very few bikes that I would say should be left alone. A run of the mill off the shelf bike -even a Paramount- is NOT one of those bikes. Maybe if it was exceedingly rare (Confente?), or historically significant (Eddy Merckx's Hour Rcord bike?), or just hugely sentimental (the bike I raced in college? or my first 'real' bike?).
This brings up the whole "should I restore to original?", "should I leave it alone?", or "should I modernize/customize/upgrade/etc?" debate.
There are very few bikes that I would say should be left alone. A run of the mill off the shelf bike -even a Paramount- is NOT one of those bikes. Maybe if it was exceedingly rare (Confente?), or historically significant (Eddy Merckx's Hour Rcord bike?), or just hugely sentimental (the bike I raced in college? or my first 'real' bike?).
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06-26-12, 08:25 AM
#45
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Oh, and I personally love what the seller did with that Paramount.
This brings up the whole "should I restore to original?", "should I leave it alone?", or "should I modernize/customize/upgrade/etc?" debate.
There are very few bikes that I would say should be left alone. A run of the mill off the shelf bike -even a Paramount- is NOT one of those bikes. Maybe if it was exceedingly rare (Confente?), or historically significant (Eddy Merckx's Hour Rcord bike?), or just hugely sentimental (the bike I raced in college? or my first 'real' bike?).
This brings up the whole "should I restore to original?", "should I leave it alone?", or "should I modernize/customize/upgrade/etc?" debate.
There are very few bikes that I would say should be left alone. A run of the mill off the shelf bike -even a Paramount- is NOT one of those bikes. Maybe if it was exceedingly rare (Confente?), or historically significant (Eddy Merckx's Hour Rcord bike?), or just hugely sentimental (the bike I raced in college? or my first 'real' bike?).
06-26-12, 08:33 AM
#49
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There are all kinds of different ways to look at value. From a monetary perspective, he's preserved most of the vintage value by saving the parts. If you're truly concerned about value, don't ride your bikes at all - stick them in a plastic bag and go for the NOS thing. For most of us, part of the value of a bike is riding it...does having a vintage bike with better parts (like brakes that work) increase its value as a rider? For me? Yes. I would rather ride this bike as the seller has built it than with Weinmann brakes - which i find ugly in addition to barely working. The handlebar change...mehhh...but the brakes? Great move. As for the toy example - sure, all those star wars toy I broke and lost are worth xxx now (at least when you want to buy them), but their value to me at age 8 was as play things. I had fun with them. I don't regret not leaving them in a box, however much they would be worth now.
I agree with Rocket - there are plenty of Paramounts out there so i just don't see this as a big deal...AND it's reversible! Personally I prefer 130mm spaced frames for modern parts, but that's my neuroses.
I agree with Rocket - there are plenty of Paramounts out there so i just don't see this as a big deal...AND it's reversible! Personally I prefer 130mm spaced frames for modern parts, but that's my neuroses.
Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 06-26-12 at 08:36 AM.
06-26-12, 08:33 AM
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'83 Waterford Paramount. I feel so filthy. I guess I'll just pop out back and off myself. Toodles.