pamaguahiker 

I am having some tire issues. After years of using Vittoria tires with much success, i am now 15-20 years later having to replace them due to high mileage wear and drying out. My problem is now, 15+ years later...i used to race then...now. I am looking for a bit wider and comfort, supple...BUT, my problem is the width. My bicycles are both 90s, one is a 1997 Bianchi Alloro and the other is an early 90s Bianchi SBX frameset. Both have very limited clearance. I started with a Pasela, 700x28, without thinking much about it and of course...there was no way it would work. So i opted to use some nice tires that i had at my disposal in my shop. Some Challenge Criteriums, 700 x 23. The ride felt nice and supple, pleasant and comfortable...the durability is crap! I am horribly disappointed, especially at the price of cost. I have less than 100 miles on the one and it had a cut in the sidewall/high side of tire that cut so deep as to ruin the tire. The other one that i replaced it with, i gave it a try again and no dice on that one either. It cut easily also. Those were both on the front. The rear tire is no better. It has several slices, just not straight through. I am not pleased with the durability. The roads that i ride are Pennsylvania roadways, they aren't perfect but i am not riding these tires on dicey, rock cobbled Paris Roubaix roadways...although many Pa roads look like this. I am not beating on these tires to the point that they should slice so easy.

So my question is,

What can anyone recommend to be a 700 x 23c (or possibly a 700x25c) that will be supple, give a good ride, yet stay durable and survive! If any of the following brands have something that is recommendable I would be appreciative because they just happen to be brands that i carry in my shop. I don't feel like investing in a big screw up again, as i did with the Challenge tires. I used the Crits because i had them on hand and available. Would the Challenge Forte work? They are described as being made for those conditions but at the cost. I don't feel like playing trial and error for the cost. And of course, with the disappointing results of the previous Challenge tires. I am hesitant. I used Challenge tires many years ago with fabulous results, which is why i gave them a shot this time. So i want durability...affordability would be good too. And something that would look good with a classic steel frameset. I love black walls also.

So what should i try? I have access to Challenge, which is where i am leaning with the Forte.
Dia-compe...never really considered them.
Hutchinson
Kenda
Maxxis
How about Soma Everwear
Freedom
Any help would be appreciated! thanks,
~Walt~

10 Wheels

Flats and Wind are a part of bike riding.

Road Fan

Conti gatorskins or narrower Paselas.

Der_Kruscher

I can't necessarily offer much advice but I do like my Kenda Kalientes on my modern bikes. They're relatively cheap, very light, very cut resistant (considering that they're a race tire), grippy, and I can get about 2,000 miles out of them. However, the graphics would look terrible on a vintage bike and while they're not rocks they're not super supple either. One that may be worth looking at is the Clement Strada LLG. I haven't used them but do have a set of Clement cross tires that are really good, particularly for what they cost. I've heard great things about the Stradas and they come in multiple widths (23, 25, 28) and steel or folding bead. QBP carries them so your shop could order some for you.

pamaguahiker 

If it was just me having a problem. I could say i understand that things happen. But it was 3 tires with less than 100 miles on all of them. I weigh 170 pounds at 6' tall so i don't think that weight is an issue. The mileage per slices is way wrong...i have never ever had tires dice up so quickly. I had 2 other customers who had slices through to the tubes also with Crits, both with around 500 miles. One gal can hardly be considered an agressive rider and i would bet she hasn't seen anything other than practically perfect pavement also. I actually wondered if there was something wrong with this batch. I got them in March and all seem to have had problems. I had the notion to email the company because i was curious if this batch had sat in a warehouse for awhile or what. Just thoughts...

oldskoolwrench

Walt,

Personally, I would lean either towards the Gatorskin in a 23mm or else a Pasela in the same width. I think the Gatorskins
look 'wide' on my rims, but they give a very good ride. The 28mm Paselas I procured from you are working quite well on my
'83 Trek 620; I'm running them a touch bit soft (90 PSI) and they give a very stable ride.

Durability wise you can't beat Conti and Panaracer... German and Japanese construction and quality.

pamaguahiker 

Well, luckily, i am my own shop so that helps with cost. I had heard some mixed reviews of the Stradas but i have considered them. I really wanted to give the Fortes a chance. But what is other's experiences with the narrower Paselas?

repechage

Personally, I think one should age any tire, tubular or "clincher".
Fragile sidewalls go hand in hand with a supple tire.
Way back, some guys just rode "hard", they went on the same training rides as we did and punctured 3 times as often, same roads same time, different riding styles. The same guys also went through wheels way more often.

The newer race tires with black sidewalls might be a wee bit more resistant to sidewall cuts, but I am vain and don't like them. On bikes I bought with them, I must admit they are sturdy, but not a fun to ride either.

gomango

Hi Walt,

Here's the problem.

The Criterium rolls out well, corners well, and gives back plenty of "feel."

It's a decent performance clincher for the money in the right conditions, but I have heard of lots of problems with this tire.

Flat protection is not what it does so well obviously.

The Pasela and Gatorskin are not in the same league in this performance category, but they will likely give you much more flat protection.

We are planning a 75 mile ride tomorrow and I just tossed on a set of Gatorskins on yesterday.

I took off a set of Challenge PRs and I can instantly "feel" the performance downgrade.

So, why would I do this?

Flat protection.

I'll be on a mix of gravel, class 5, two lane country roads, and even a stretch of cow pasture to get to the creek.

Yep, we are going fly fishing.

I guess life is full of compromises when it comes to tires.

Pars 

I'd second the Conti Gatorskins, or maybe try the Conti GP 4 Seasons, which have a black sidewall.

I just warrantied my Gatorskins (700x28) as they were losing thread around the bead (a continuous circle of thread was coming off, on both tires... never seen anything like it). Nashbar of course didn't read the note I included about contacting me through any of the 4 or 5 contact numbers or email addresses that I gave them as I was going to try to replace these with the 4 Seasons (if they would price match wiggle... they won't ). So, still running a new pair of Gatorskins.

These measure 27.4mm on a set of Ambrosio Elite 19 rims BTW. Maybe those would fit your bikes?

Rx Rider

loved my conti gp 4000s right up to mile 80 when the side wall blew out without popping the tube (115 psi), sticking with gatorskins now.

gomango

The GP 4 seasons I rode last year was a much nicer tire than the Gatorskin.

But I already owned the Gatorskins, so on they went.

Good suggestion though!

ColonelJLloyd 

The narrowest tires I'm using at the moment are Michelin Pro Race 3 (700x25) and Vittoria Rubino Pro (700x28). Both seem to be a very good balance of performance, ride quality and flat protection.

Pars 

Jan Nikolalsen suggested the 4 Seasons in a tire thread and perked my interest in them.

pamaguahiker 

I love the Vittoria Rubino Pro tires. I rode Vittoria almost exclusively before because i got some sponsorship from them and got some tires for free in the 90s which is why all my bikes were outfitted with them. So i miss them. Heck, on the Vittoria Pro Team tires, i never got any sidewall cuts. I rode them til they were down to the green treads and they still will work. I took them and rolled them up and keep them under the seat for a spare if i tear a sidewall...which is what i ended up doing 3 rides later after i put on the Challenge Crits.

and Gomango stated "I'll be on a mix of gravel, class 5, two lane country roads, and even a stretch of cow pasture to get to the creek." Now that is my kind of riding! Which is why i built up my other Bianchi for those conditions. My roads probably are defined as the macadum, two lane country roads, occasional aftermath roads from tar and chipping. From what i am reading, I will be choosing either Gatorskins or going back to Vittoria again with a set of Rubino Pro...thing is. I still need about a 700x23, maybe 25. The room is scarce! Darn Racer angles! I love them!

mkeller234

I recently had some flatting issues on Challenge Paris Roubaix tires (14 flats this year!). I think I may have been over inflating the tires.

Either way, I got a pair of Maxxis Re-fuse tires to replace them with. The Maxxis tires have lived up to their flat protection claims, I've even tested that by running over glass on purpose. The tires are narrower and don't look as nice. They don't have the plush ride of the challenge tires, but i'd say they are ok. I just got tired of buying and repairing tubes all the time.

delicious

My Challenge Crits haven't been the most durable either. I put some Tire-Life on the sidewall of one that had a small tear, and it's been holding up fine. They do ride wonderfully.

haaseg

Meh. I put 2500 miles on a pair of Conti GP4000s (23mm) and only had 1 flat. At 2500 I put a new tire on the front and moved the old front to the back. It's got another 1000 miles on it and will probably go at least 500 more (unless I just jinxed myself).

I think the gatorskins are too harsh. The GP4000s are fairly supple and afford enough flat protection for me.

gomango

The only reason I took my Challenge PRs off my Hollands was not flat related.

They simply grew enough to give me rub in the stays.

I routinely ran them at 100-110 and loved them.

I'm leaving on a long ride though today and the Gatorskins give me security knowing I won't have to deal with flats on gravel.

It will be way tOo hot here today to put up with tire "issues."

rccardr 

When people talk to me about 'cuts' instead of 'flats', I think road surface and not tire. Most of my bikes have either Pro3's or Vittoria Open Pro 320's, and I get what I would consider good life out of them- at around 1000 miles I move the front to the back and replace the front. Since most of my riding is on MUP's, there's not much glass or debris so I get few flats- maybe a couple each season. When I'm on a club or charity ride that includes public roads and riding on the shoulder, I get more sidewall cuts- just the nature of the beast, I guess.

I've found the best 23 sized tire for durability is the Kenda Kontender. Niagara sells 'em for something like $12 each, never had one fail and they almost never flat. Not the most compliant ride and I wouldn't want to race on them, but overall...not bad at all for the price.

MetinUz

I love how Challenge tires ride, but I am beginning to think their reputation to flat easily is well earned. I have had no flats on Michelin Pro Race 3 or Conti 4000 tires, yet I had 5 flats in 4 rides with the Challenge PR's, including 4 flats on a 600K. Some of these flats looked like no tire could help -- like a big sheet metal screw I picked up on a highway on-ramp. Still, I may try something else next time.

MrEss

Rides like this are precisely why I've got the Challenge PRs on my bike. I suppose luck must enter into these decisions a lot as well.

TimeTravel_0

GP4000S (the ones with black chili compound)

mkeller234

I willingly admit that a couple of the flats that I had may not be the tires fault. A couple were caused by me not finding a glass shard imbedded in the tire. They rode really nice though, as a bonus looked great too. I sold mine to another forum member, and even with all the flats it was not an easy decision to make.

aixaix 

I've had no problems with Challenge Paris Roubaix 700x28 on a bike that gets ridden on dirt, gravel & NYC streets. Maxxis Re-fuse 700x25 have been on our tandem for a couple of seasons and haven't flatted yet.

Probably just jinxed myself...