Colnago Saronni?
 

Hello to all! I'll try to keep this as short as possible - being my first post and all.

About 6 months ago I bought a Colnago Saronni road bike off ebay. At the time I didn't have much of a clue about Colnago frames and over the past six months I've become only more confused and frustrated trying to find out some more specific details regarding the frame. I've read through quite a few posts regarding different Colnago Saronni bikes and am still at a loss.

The paint job looks original to me - but I am by no means an expert. The thing is, I have never found a Colnago with this type of paint job. I can't find any Colnago specific markings on the frame - no BB cutout - The dropouts are Columbus tubing but I guess that doesn't mean it's Colnago. There are a couple markings on the BB (see photos) but no idea what they mean, if anything. The three brazens on the top tube are also not typical of Colnago as I understand. Maybe it's not a Colnago at all!

The specifics of the bike are as follows - if it helps at all.

Columbus steel frame - 57mm - 53mm top tube
126mm rear dropouts
Shimano 600 Groupset
Mavic MA2 Argent rims

Presently there is also a very similar Colnago Saronni on ebay, which makes me think it is a Colnago.

Here are the photos of mine, any help identifying it would be more than appreciated!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=258578http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=258579http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=258580http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=258581http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=258582http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=258583http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=258584

I can not find any markings, other than the decals, that indicate Colnago. Saronni is usually a reference to the color of the bike and not a model. I belive the color is more orange than red and a solid paint scheme. The bike you reference also does not have the characteristics of a Colnago.

There are several attempts to imitate, which is a form of flattery. But in these cases it is also a way of deception.

In terms of identifying the frame maker, the cutouts and seat stay caps would be your clue. I have not seen these before. But then I am not an expert on frame makers. I will be interested in what others opinions or knowledge reveals!

Are you happy with the ride?

Hi sanktjohanser, I think your suspicions are correct as I don't think it's a genuine Saronni either. The front fork looks genuine but the frame does look suspicious.

I had a Saronni track bike and it had "SARONNI" cast into the seat stay plugs as well as an "S" cast into the bottom lug on the head tube. The fork crown also had an "S and SARONNI" cast into either side (just like your front fork). The bottom bracket has the Colnago "Ace of Flowers" logo cutout into the shell. I have seen a small number of Saronni's over the years and I'm very sure they all had "SARONNI" cast markings on the frames.

As for the paint scheme - I have not seen that particular paint scheme on a Saronni - I have seen a plain crossed pattern, similar to the Colnago paint schemes of the 80's, on Saronni's.

I have by no means seen every Saronni that was built so I hope I am completely wrong.

It does look like a very nice bike though. It's very well presented and would be a nice bike to ride. The top tube does seem to be quite short going by your measurements and your stem seems to be on the short side as well. There's nothing wrong with that though - how does it fit you? That's more important.

What is that pantograph on the seat stay cap and on the fork crown. Are they the Columbus bird and name on them? I suspect such as the DOs also say "Columbus".
Not saying it not a Colnago, but I would expect the colnago name or tradiionals marks and pantogrphs to be on the frame, otherwise, it seems to be of high quality considering all the details on the lugs and even the paint on it. Any decals calling out the type of Columbus tubing? Is it SLX?? I don't think it's a fake considering all the work that was put into it, maybe it's some sort of special edition bike from Colnago??
Colnago or not, it's looks like a very nice bike.......

Chombi

No colnago motif cut out on the bottom bracket creates questions.
Seat stay caps on both bikes cited are not congruent and not Colnago
The transfers are Colnago
Colnago got hip early to brand parts with his name on them such as dropout faces, yet more questions.
The first bike does have a Colnago fork it appears,but also looks to me like it might have a declining top tube, indicating a mis match of fork length to frame design.

Thanks to all of you. So it's stacking up not to be a Colnago - no biggie. I would like to know, in the case that I ever decided to sell, who the manufacturer is. I wouldn't feel comfortable telling someone it's a Colnago.

@Gary Fountain - The Saronni bikes I've seen also have the "SARONNI" or "S" cast somewhere on the frame. I love the bike regardless of whether it's a Colnago or not. I'm just beginning to read up on bike fitting and it may well be that it's a little short but up until now I've felt very comfortable on it.

@ Chombi - no idea what that pantograph is - not the Columbus bird - just randomly decorative I imagine. I was hoping to find out what type of tubing it is but unfortunately there is no decal or indication whatsoever :(

@repechage - the top tube is straight - just a weird angle in the photo. And I'm still not sure about the forks being Colnago - they are also cast with the Columbus name and logo.

Here's a better pic of the engraving on the BB. Any ideas?

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=258609

Any and all speculations are more than welcome! Thanks again.

Looks like "MBZ" to me.....what that means, I dunno....
I'm sure someone in the forum might have encountered it before.

Chombi

Who is on the headbadge? I have a book on the life of Ernesto Colnago (autographed by the Maestro himself). There are photos of the various headbadges used by Colnago throughout the years.

I did not see the one in the OP's pictures.

Giuseppe Saronni is the guy on the headbadge - it's just a decal though.

Yes I have.

Biemmezeta was the likely maufacturer.

BMZ, not MBZ.

Italian manufacturer.

They built for many companies of some renown.

Here's a link to another beauty.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...lots-of-photos

Nice bike btw OP. Probably looks great in person and rides well.

Quick search nets me this:

http://www.kijiji.it/annunci/bicicle...orsa/30734884#

http://img1.annuncicdn.it/e9/b7/e9b7...bb5a0c_big.jpg


Compare to see if this may be accurate.

Thank you soooo much gomango! I did a lot of googling and it is definitely made by Biemmezeta. Found this pic, exact same logo as on my BB. As to what type of columbus tubing it is - still no clue. Evidently BMZ made frames that were then branded under names such as Palo Alto and Lazzaretti (sp?). The older frames from Biemmezeta have a simple BMZ stamped on the BB - later models are stamped with the logo like mine. The closest I can narrow it down to is early to mid 80's.

I'm going with the assumption that BMZ made these frames and then Colnago slapped the Sarroni head badge on them. I've found a few more examples on ebay with the same head badge and I'm betting they have the same logo on the BB.

Thanks again gomango - that really helped.

Nichts zu danken. :)

Eines Tages, Ich möchte auch ein Biemmezeta probieren.

Oft, diese Fahrräder haben sehr interresant Rahmen einzelheiten.

Hi I have picked up a saronni frame can someone tell me more about the origins it has no 54 stamped on it ......
..http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312709http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312710http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312711http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312712http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312713http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312714

interesting bike indeed:thumb:

Hi smaltycbr,

Colnago produced a "Saronni" range of road and track bikes to celebrate Guiseppe Saronni winning the 1982 World Championships. Saronni was a favourite rider of Ernesto Colnago and rode his bikes for the Del Tongo team. There is quite a bit of information regarding Saronni and his career on the net. Similarly, there is a few images of Saronni bikes on the net as well. The team bike (Colnago) ridden by Saronni was a beautiful deep metallic red with white panels which has gone on to become an iconic Colnago paint scheme.

I had a Saronni track frame which was made out of Columbus SL tubing - yours is probably made out of the same tubing. The "54" may be the frame size.

It is not uncommon to find old Saronni frames with Colnago decals which were added by owners just like yours. If you would like to see a faithful replica (replacement) decal set, you can search the net for "Cyclemondo" who produces replacement decal sets. These decal sets are made in Australia by a real "Colnago collector" and are often used by people reconditioning frames worldwide. I think your frame should have this decal set on it.

Personally, I have found the original paint work to be of reasonably poor quality but it does depend on the care taken by the owners. That said, the Saronni frame colours can be quite stunning.

I hope this has helped.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=313035http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=313036http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=313037http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=313038http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=313039http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=313040Like Gary said Colnago sold a range of Saronnis. The two families were. Saronni won the Giro de Italia at 21 a very big deal in Italy. I think the bikes were strictly a European model. Most people in the US have never seen one. I have two both NOS I believe. One high end one low end. Ed

Hi smaltycbr,

Re the components on your bike: I understand you may be curious about the mix of components and if there is a Japanese / Colnago connection:

Some Colnago's were available with Shimano components from new. Others were bought as a frame set and had Japanese components fitted. I have a Colnago Pro team bike that had Suntour Superbe Pro fitted from new. Other Colnago's had components upgraded by owners or fitted with cheaper options. I do not know of Colnago having a direct Japanese connection. Bianchi, on the other hand had a range of their bikes made totally in Japan. I tend to think that there are no 'hard and fast' rules regarding Colnagos' and their components.

Newer Colnago's are now made in Asia but that is not the era you are interested in here.

P.S. The heart shaped cutouts appear on many brands of frame. Its a nice shape that fits the lug well.

Gary.

Anybody notice the short Colnago dropouts on the "fake Frame"? Ed

What you have is a very nice red Saronni. But its not Saronni red which is Burgundy and looks like Chromovelato. I think most Colnagos of the 80's-90's were built by
contractors designed by Colnago and hand built by outside builders. In my opinion the Saronni was Euro market only. The people on the forum are mostly US. 90-95%
have never seen a Euro Colnago. 99% have never seen a Saronni. I think in the 80's-90's Germany was Don Ernesto's biggest market. If you look on German EBay
there are more Colnagos than all the other EBay's combined. In the 80's Colnago made the bikes for and sponsored the DDR national team. From the 70's through the 90's Colnago made sold about 30 different models most of which were never sold in the US. Sorry for being so long winded. Have you weighed the bike? anything under 10 kilos is a pretty fair indication of quality. Ed

Here is a Saronni red Colnago. The paint has a very fine metallic flake and is a darker red than your bike. It's my understanding that Colnago named this color "Saronni red" after Guiseppe Saronni won the World Championship on a bike of similar color.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...pseb5103bc.jpg

Saronni red Colnago with a Saronni head tube sticker. Everyone who tries to sell a red Colnago calls it Saronni red. Not so. Edhttp://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=313494

A very nice Saronni Super Record Giro de Italia on French EBay. Ed Item number 290907393786

Saronni red Superisimo. http://veloclassics.blogspot.com.es/...o-saronni.html

Colnago Saronni Super Commemorative model
 

I found this Colnago Saronni Super. this is what info I have of the bike:
"Saronni Super" model, named after World Champion cyclist Guiseppe Saronni who rode a Colnago to victory in the 1982 World Championships (see photo).
• A great collectors bike because this is a VERY RARE, special limited edition commemorative model (commemorating when EDDY MERCKX rode a Colnago to the world hour record in 1972). It is also the same year that Saronni won the World Championship (beating American Greg Lemond in the sprint). Note: frame is not perfect, has ding in top tube.
• See special decal on seat tube "Record Ora Mexico 1972"
Is this a REAL BIKE???
• Pantograph (cut out) parts, made for this limited edition bike -- with Italian national colors of red, white and green! See photos for details.http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497492http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497493http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497494http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497495http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497496http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497497http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497498http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497499http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497500http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497501http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=497502

If you're considering buying, don't. The seller has misrepresented this particular bike in too many ways. Maybe not on purpose, but...

First off, fork doesn't match the frame. It's a late-70s Colnago Super fork and the frame is an early 80s Sarroni based on the pantographing at the head lug and seat stay caps.

Secondly, the pantographing on the parts is somewhat special, but not Sarroni or Colnago. The dove engravings are most likely Columbus tubing doves. So, the panto on this bike doesn't really add to the value one bit, at least regarding being a Colnago or Sarroni with correct pantographing. The brakeset and crankarms, while profiled and milled, are still low-end Campy Gran Sport. No panto on the seatpost. I'd call it a hodgepodge of parts knowing how it was originally kitted out.

Thirdly, it's not a commemorative model built to celebrate Merckx's Hour Record of 1972, but to commemorate Sarroni's winning of the World Championship in 1982. Therefore, the decal set (which appears to be a genuine mid/late 70s set) is not original to the frame. It would've been simple to remove the old Saronni decals as they were sticker types without clear coat, similar to the application here.

Ding in the top tube? Hmmm...how about a close-up from the seller? I'd think that would be provided as a given.

Lastly, the over-the-top painting of the various bolts, while being garish on the surface might also serve the secondary job of covering up rust.

Lots more fish in the sea. I'd pass. Put this thread over in Appraisals and see what everyone else thinks.

DD