Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Thankfully my Corvette isn't numbers matching....

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Thankfully my Corvette isn't numbers matching....

Old 07-10-12, 08:05 PM
  #26  
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,906

Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 17 Posts
I bet that buyer needs to have NOS correct, month, day, year tires at $3,000-$5,000 a piece too!! Oh and for those years of cars, you need to have 5 matching ones. Or you won't to be able to compete in top notch car shows. I knew of a local 1969 Dodge Daytona 440 automatic car that was %100 original. I had to rebuild the Three holley carbs using Factory original carb kits. Oh, and he wanted all the old gaskets and parts afterwards.
Michael Angelo is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:08 PM
  #27  
frantik
Chainstay Brake Mafia
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California
Posts: 6,026
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 5 Posts
i wish i had some $700 bolts
frantik is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:15 PM
  #28  
vjp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
In a previous life I was a graphic designer specializing in making "hero's" for advertising print/commercial, TV and film. I occasionally did one off decals for a car restoration "syndicate" that showed every year at Pebble Beach. One year they came in second in class behind the winner (and overall winner), the Bugatti Coupe of Ralph Lauren. They were thrilled beyond words, the money they spent on their resto and what RL spent were about $16,000,000 apart.

They were fanatical about the decal I made (for the oil filter) but told me that they used modern forged pistons made to their specs from a specialist in Indianapolis and that surprised me considering how anal they were. They said that everything that was hidden was fair game for modern replacements, again I thought that they would be like the people after these bolts.
vjp is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:16 PM
  #29  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times in 16 Posts
I'm not really into correctness.





Grand Bois is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:19 PM
  #30  
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,906

Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Very nice.
Michael Angelo is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:21 PM
  #31  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 27,502

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1898 Post(s)
Liked 2,721 Times in 1,454 Posts
Originally Posted by vjp View Post
They were fanatical about the decal I made (for the oil filter)...
Period correct font and proper transfers on a visible oil filter, I understand. Heck, I was subconsciously eying the loud, orange FRAM filter on my '79 Lincoln today when running new power steering lines. Not quite as fitting as a proper Motorcraft piece.

But even for a picture-perfect resto, it makes no sense to spend $700 for "FP" in relief on two bolts - hidden under the top of an air cleaner - when two virtually identical replacements (correct in every respect with exception to the lettering) can be had for $4.

At this point, it's simply an exercise in who has the most money to blow to prove a point.

-Kurt
__________________








Last edited by cudak888; 07-10-12 at 08:25 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:23 PM
  #32  
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,906

Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by vjp View Post
In a previous life I was a graphic designer specializing in making "hero's" for advertising print/commercial, TV and film. I occasionally did one off decals for a car restoration "syndicate" that showed every year at Pebble Beach. One year they came in second in class behind the winner (and overall winner), the Bugatti Coupe of Ralph Lauren. They were thrilled beyond words, the money they spent on their resto and what RL spent were about $16,000,000 apart.

They were fanatical about the decal I made (for the oil filter) but told me that they used modern forged pistons made to their specs from a specialist in Indianapolis and that surprised me considering how anal they were. They said that everything that was hidden was fair game for modern replacements, again I thought that they would be like the people after these bolts.

Don't get me started about automotive decals. Being a Mopar Judge I've been asked to many times to chose which car has the most original looking "Correct" reproduction decal. Key word being reproduction.....
Heck, I got bolt sets for my customers from auto salvage yards in Texas and Arizona, just for restorations.
Michael Angelo is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:29 PM
  #33  
Artkansas 
Pedaled too far.
 
Artkansas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Petite Roche
Posts: 12,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by iab View Post
Any designer worth their salt would insist on getting it right. God is in the details. And God would never be in the Home Depot looking for air cleaner bolts.
LOL, of course God would never be in Home Depot looking for air cleaner bolts. First, he's omniscient so he knows exactly where they are without looking, and second, it would be trivial for him to just bring NOS bolts into existance, already in the air cleaner and properly torqued without any wrench marks.

But my point was, if you were Harley Earl, would you drive the car or put it on a pedestal? Articles on his '63 Corvette indicate that it was a driver and often seen on the streets of West Palm Beach. He sold it to a retired Maryland Army veteran, who drove the car to California and back.
__________________
"He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.
Artkansas is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:31 PM
  #34  
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,906

Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 17 Posts
All cars should be Driven even FORDS.
Michael Angelo is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:36 PM
  #35  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 27,502

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1898 Post(s)
Liked 2,721 Times in 1,454 Posts
Originally Posted by Michael Angelo View Post
All cars should be Driven even FORDS.
True fact - Mopar was originally known as "MoePar," because you bought your spare parts from a guy named Moe. From his backyard shed.

(Hence his name, Moe "One Shed" Jackson).

-Kurt
__________________







cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:40 PM
  #36  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by Michael Angelo View Post
Very nice.
I didn't like the super low profile tires on the truck. I switched to taller 17s after I wore those out in about 8k miles and now it's on 15" rally wheels and 60 series Tiger Paws. They cost way less, last longer and ride a whole lot better. I must be getting old.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:48 PM
  #37  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,476
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2581 Post(s)
Liked 2,483 Times in 1,012 Posts
Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
LOL, of course God would never be in Home Depot looking for air cleaner bolts. First, he's omniscient so he knows exactly where they are without looking, and second, it would be trivial for him to just bring NOS bolts into existance, already in the air cleaner and properly torqued without any wrench marks.

But my point was, if you were Harley Earl, would you drive the car or put it on a pedestal? Articles on his '63 Corvette indicate that it was a driver and often seen on the streets of West Palm Beach. He sold it to a retired Maryland Army veteran, who drove the car to California and back.
I know dozens of folks who vintage race that will look for the correct bolts and then flip their 7 figure car over the guard rail. They also let some stupid kid drive their cars way too fast. They make sure they can reverse the fuel cell, six point harness and roll cage at any time.

Just because you want your car "correct" does not necessarily mean it will be a trailer queen. And again, there is no doubt Harley would not want some ****ty bolts on his car if he had the means to put the proper ones on.
iab is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 08:50 PM
  #38  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,476
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2581 Post(s)
Liked 2,483 Times in 1,012 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
At this point, it's simply an exercise in who has the most money to blow to prove a point.

-Kurt
Incorrect.

You should watch your sweeping generalizations.
iab is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 09:14 PM
  #39  
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 27,502

Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com

Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1898 Post(s)
Liked 2,721 Times in 1,454 Posts
Originally Posted by iab View Post
Incorrect.
A projective test may prove otherwise.

For that matter, if outrageously rigorous judging is the purpose to which a car is restored, the restoration becomes the satisfaction of someone else's criteria - namely, the judges.

-Kurt
__________________








Last edited by cudak888; 07-10-12 at 09:18 PM.
cudak888 is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 09:15 PM
  #40  
FlatTop
holyrollin'
 
FlatTop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: L.B.N.J.U.S.A.
Posts: 1,324

Bikes: Raleigh, Rudge, James 3spds., and a cast of many

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Pebble Beach has hosted some beautiful restored and also period preserved hot rods in recent years. As hard as it is to correctly restore a production car with its wealth of documentation, how much more difficult it must be to return to original a hot rod, or a racer that was campaigned for years. Rare speed equipment can be sourced, but what about handmade parts that are missing? Someone has to cast/forge/spin/mould those bits to make an "as new" one-of-a-kind car.

Last edited by FlatTop; 07-10-12 at 09:20 PM. Reason: inaccurate phrase hopefully clarified
FlatTop is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 09:38 PM
  #41  
sailorbenjamin 
26 tpi nut.
 
sailorbenjamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island (an obscure suburb of Connecticut)
Posts: 5,703

Bikes: one of each

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts
There have been times, late at night, trying to get the fenders on one of my Raleighs just right, that I'd have paid 700 for the right bolt.
Do you suppose those Corvette bolts are 26 TPI Whitworth?
__________________
I have spoken.
sailorbenjamin is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 09:47 PM
  #42  
FlatTop
holyrollin'
 
FlatTop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: L.B.N.J.U.S.A.
Posts: 1,324

Bikes: Raleigh, Rudge, James 3spds., and a cast of many

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Reportedly they are 1/4-20. There is no more common size in the Americas. You should be able to get them in any material or finish, from zinced carbon steel to white gold over titanium, for less than $700.

It's that "FP" that makes all the difference.
FlatTop is offline  
Old 07-10-12, 11:17 PM
  #43  
lostarchitect 
incazzare.
 
lostarchitect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Catskills/Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 6,976

Bikes: See sig

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by iab View Post
Any designer worth their salt would insist on getting it right. God is in the details. And God would never be in the Home Depot looking for air cleaner bolts.
This designer would "get it right" by not wasting stupid amounts of money on things that don't affect the design in either form or function.
__________________
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
lostarchitect is offline  
Old 07-11-12, 05:00 AM
  #44  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,476
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2581 Post(s)
Liked 2,483 Times in 1,012 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
A projective test may prove otherwise.

For that matter, if outrageously rigorous judging is the purpose to which a car is restored, the restoration becomes the satisfaction of someone else's criteria - namely, the judges.

-Kurt
Seriously? You don't know a single person who would buy these bolts, or any equivalently priced part. And know you know their character? Again, incorrect.
iab is offline  
Old 07-11-12, 05:05 AM
  #45  
miamijim
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
miamijim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 14,086
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 86 Times in 66 Posts
Originally Posted by FlatTop View Post
As hard as it is to correctly restore a production car with its wealth of documentation, how much more difficult it must be to return to original a hot rod, or a racer that was campaigned for years. Rare speed equipment can be sourced, but what about handmade parts that are missing? Someone has to cast/forge/spin/mould those bits to make an "as new" one-of-a-kind car.
I can build a complere L88 Corvette from catalogs that an NCRS wouldn't be able tell was built in such a way except for the date codes and and other stamped numbers. In fact it's known that good forgers can replicate bock and head castings numbers with suprisingly good results.

An old joke is that Bloomington Gold and the NCRS have certified more L88's than were ever made.
miamijim is offline  
Old 07-11-12, 05:06 AM
  #46  
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,906

Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
A projective test may prove otherwise.

For that matter, if outrageously rigorous judging is the purpose to which a car is restored, the restoration becomes the satisfaction of someone else's criteria - namely, the judges.

-Kurt
Not really, When I judge, I let the car speak for itself. Any car can win a car show, when it's judged on the point system. Sure, there are different classes in a car show. The one I'm asked to judge is the Original/restored class. It always come down to, originallity, cleanliness, attention to detail, and workmanship. The participants know full well if a museum/Garage queen shows up in their class, it's going to be tough to win against it. I personally don not like over restored vehicles. I like cars that are all original, have been kept in perfect shape.
Michael Angelo is offline  
Old 07-11-12, 05:06 AM
  #47  
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 11,476
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2581 Post(s)
Liked 2,483 Times in 1,012 Posts
Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
This designer would "get it right" by not wasting stupid amounts of money on things that don't affect the design in either form or function.
You can't answer that question until you have the means. And as a designer, you will likely never have the means. Get yourself 9 figures in the bank and come back with an answer.

And exactly why would changing the design with different bolts not make the form different?
iab is offline  
Old 07-11-12, 05:08 AM
  #48  
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,906

Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
I can build a complere L88 Corvette from catalogs that an NCRS wouldn't be able tell was built in such a way except for the date codes and and other stamped numbers. In fact it's known that good forgers can replicate bock and head castings numbers with suprisingly good results.

An old joke is that Bloomington Gold and the NCRS have certified more L88's than were ever made.
That's so true, someone also said there are more 67-69 Z28 Camaros today, than GM ever built.
Michael Angelo is offline  
Old 07-11-12, 05:09 AM
  #49  
Michael Angelo 
Senior Member
 
Michael Angelo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hurricane Alley , Florida
Posts: 3,906

Bikes: Treks (USA), Schwinn Paramount, Schwinn letour,Raleigh Team Professional, Gazelle GoldLine Racing, 2 Super Mondias, Carlton Professional.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 17 Posts
I should scan some of my Photo albums, so you guys can see some of the cars of my past.
Michael Angelo is offline  
Old 07-11-12, 05:22 AM
  #50  
gomango 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STP
Posts: 15,208
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 814 Post(s)
Liked 230 Times in 133 Posts
Originally Posted by Michael Angelo View Post
I should scan some of my Photo albums, so you guys can see some of the cars of my past.
That would be great.

I grew up with a car enthusiast for a father.

Cudas, Challengers, Charger R/Ts, and even a Superbird for a while filled our driveway when I was a teen.

So yes, pics are always welcome.
gomango is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.