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1st gen Dura Ace groupset vs Campag Nuovo record groupset??

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1st gen Dura Ace groupset vs Campag Nuovo record groupset??

Old 07-11-12, 03:07 AM
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ronnie85
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1st gen Dura Ace groupset vs Campag Nuovo record groupset??

Hi guys,

I've got a nice holdsworth Pro bike from 1978. Its currently got full dura ace group on it. It originally would have come with a campag nuovo record group, but this one was built up from a frame only when it was bought new with dura ace.

Just wondering whether Nuovo record is better than Dura ace?? and is there any difference in weight?

Weighing up whether its worth changing the groupset as its seems that nuovo is more expensive to buy than dura ace?

Thanks!
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Old 07-11-12, 03:23 AM
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Would be hard pressed to have a nicer set up than the dura ace...
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Old 07-11-12, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
Would be hard pressed to have a nicer set up than the dura ace...
Yeah its really nice, its only because a few people have told me that its the wrong group set for my frame. Just wondered if the nuovo was any better or lighter? If not just gona leave it alone.
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Old 07-11-12, 04:12 AM
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Do you plan on riding it or mounting to the wall. If riding, just stick with the Dura Ace.
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Old 07-11-12, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ronnie85 View Post
Just wondering whether Nuovo record is better than Dura ace??
No offense but, this is such a loaded and, in my view, meaningless question that all you'll get is arguments about it. There is no definitive answer to this question. It's personal preference. Go with what blows yer skirt up.
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Old 07-11-12, 05:10 AM
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Ok ok. Cool this is my first racing bike and I really don't know much about these groupsets. if its much of a muchness I'll stick with what I've got. Just wondered whether I should be putting Nuovo on it because thats what my bike "should have on it", and if that reason is because its better and lighter. but if there really isn't anything in it then I'll stick with what I've got and tell people who mention the groupset being wrong to bugger off... :-)
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Old 07-11-12, 05:21 AM
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That's the spirit. "Period correct" is important to some folks. Myself included . But if you just plan on riding it, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a more user friendly, smooth-shifting group than Dura Ace. I'm partial to Nuovo Record but , neither group set is better than the other. Though many will disagree with me.

By the way; tests done by Frank Berto in the 70's would suggest the Shimano and Suntour derailleurs shifted better than the Nuovo Record. Probably true. I can't add anything of value as I've never owned a Dura Ace equipped bike. To me, at least, there are other reasons that make Nuovo Record gear desireable, but that's just personal preference.

On another note, you're right. You'd spend a considerable sum converting to Nuovo Record, unless you can find a donor bike for cheap.

Nice bike.

Last edited by rootboy; 07-11-12 at 05:27 AM.
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Old 07-11-12, 05:25 AM
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There's nothing wrong with Dura Ace but prior to Shimano's introduction of indexed shifting, Campy is what nice bikes wore. If you want jaws to drop and people to drool over your beautiful bike, go Campy. If you want them to do an impression of the RCA Victor dog, stick with the Shimano.
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Old 07-11-12, 05:25 AM
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I think first-generation Dura Ace is a lot more interesting and less-common than Nuovo Record. Seems like "everyone" has a Nuovo Record bike. Nuovo Record parts are relatively easy to find, first-generation Dura Ace, not so much.
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Old 07-11-12, 06:37 AM
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Flip a coin. I've used both, although NR much more. They both work well and are reliable. As for the Berto tests, I don't think they measure anything most riders would notice on the road. Agree first gen Dura Ace is less common than NR, if that appeals to you.
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Old 07-11-12, 11:36 AM
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Many bikes look better with NR, some with DA. This is more or less subjective however.

Imo most important quality difference between NR and 1st DA in my experience is that NR's chrome suffers less from rust issues generally. With DA EX much chrome is gone and EX has also several technological features that set it apart from Campagnolo. Really quirky is AX, but AX comes with plastics.
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Old 07-11-12, 11:59 AM
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The Holdsworth Professional was available as a complete bicycle or as a frameset:


These pages are from '81, but my point is this: there is no "wrong" gruppo for a bike purchased as a frame set - the rider would have outfitted it as best suited their needs. Complete bikes came with Campy groups, but adding DA to a frame set wouldn't have been "wrong," nor would updating components a couple years later into the life of the bike. In fact, I'm looking at building mine up with DA at the moment, especially because you don't see it as often.
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Old 07-11-12, 12:22 PM
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From back in the day, the collective view of the bike shop workers was:

Brakes, not as good, more flexible, only all or nothing quick release, no "O" ring on the adjuster to have any chance of protecting the frame if the caliper came in contact with the down tube.
Brake levers, really not as solid. We all thought of them as Weinmann copies, but better hoods.

Hubs, as good, but almost everyone had Campagnolo, so why bother? Chrome on quick release skewers not as good, chrome lock nuts on axles, cool, chrome on oil port, cooler.

Headset, heavier and a very distinct style, some thought they were great, some felt they were easier to damage in use.

Bottom bracket, as good bearing wise, we were not sure about the durability, no reverse rifling to extract dirt.

Cranks, as good, but no one back then really exploited the ability to run a smaller inner ring. I know the Shimano would take a 40, maybe a 39?
Hard to get non standard lengths. We assumed chainrings would have a decent life span.

Pedals... nothing to compare. There were decent Japanese pedals but they were really not significantly cheaper than Campagnolo.

Rear derailleur, better than Campagnolo on the wider ranges, but who needed a wide range back then?

Front derailleur, not as good, softer materials, got "sloppy" fast

No seatpost to compare.

Shift levers: downtube controls were oddball design to adapt to Campagnolo style braze ons, not smart Shimano.
Bar end controls were spring loads and better than Campagnolo's but everyone preferred Suntour.

That about covers it.

DuraAce EX fixed the brake stiffness issue, still an awkward quick release.
EX front changer was better than the original.
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Old 07-11-12, 12:50 PM
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Some one mentioned first generation DA but I don't think the OP did. IMO any group would be period correct if it was '78 or earlier weather it was Shimano or Campy. I'm sure there were a few racers back in the day putting 3-4 year old Dura Ace on a bike made in the UK.
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Old 07-11-12, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jfmckenna View Post
Some one mentioned first generation DA but I don't think the OP did.
Check the title of the thread.
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Old 07-11-12, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Snydermann View Post
Check the title of the thread.
need coffee.

I think it's appropriate for that bike then.
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Old 07-11-12, 01:23 PM
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ronnie85, The 1st gen DA group still had aways to go before really challenging Campagnolo Record group. I really like the 1st gen DA, but I have to agree about the goofy shifter design. If the bike were mine I'd gladly leave it as is.

Brad
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Old 07-11-12, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
ronnie85, The 1st gen DA group still had aways to go before really challenging Campagnolo Record group. I really like the 1st gen DA, but I have to agree about the goofy shifter design. If the bike were mine I'd gladly leave it as is.

Brad
The 7400 series group was the breakthrough for Shimano as far as the racers were concerned. Part of that was the lapse of a number of Campagnolo and Suntour patents.
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Old 07-11-12, 02:48 PM
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I agree with the general assessment that 1st Gen Dura Ace (mentioned in the OP subject) was definitely period correct. As this bicycle was "assembled" new with Dura Ace, you definitely have the right groupo on there. I wouldn't change it unless you don't like it. If you are worried strictly about performance, put a modern groupo on there. If you are worried about aesthetics, IMHO you have nothing to worry about.
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Old 07-11-12, 05:00 PM
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This is great reading! thanks guys. Yeah its got 1st gen DA so think I'll just stick with that. The frameset came with a campag seat post and headset, so may change those over to DA too at some point to make it all the same. I've not used a record groupset so cant compare myself but really like the way the DA I have shifts and rides, so will just stick with it! thanks again!
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Old 07-11-12, 05:04 PM
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Well, if you do decide to swap things around, I have an inordinate fondness for 1st-generation Dura Ace. Of course, without pictures of your Holdsworth and said grouppo, this is all idle speculation.
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Old 07-11-12, 08:20 PM
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I'm one of those people who don't care about what "should" be on a bike. That being said, I'd choose the DA over the Campy.
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Old 07-11-12, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ronnie85 View Post
Ok ok. Cool this is my first racing bike and...:-)
Just a quick note: You'll get more respect and less flack if you don't refer to it as a "racing bike", even though road bikes with derailleurs and drop bars were marketed that way. Unless of course you really plan to race it, or someone else did back then. Better to refer to it as a road bike.
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Old 07-11-12, 08:32 PM
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The most important thing is how well the parts work and one would hope a matching group would not have any deficiencies, 600 Arabesque comes to mind as it is a beautiful group save for a rear derailleur that was primitive compared to it's competitors that wore out prematurely. The competition was Suntour VX and Cyclone so there really ws no contest and it was only snobbery that kept Camapgnolo in business during this period as Suntour made the best friction derailleurs ever

I am slowly converting my mid 70's Ron Cooper to an NR group but will be keeping the Zeus 2000 centre pull brakes and am not going to rush out and find the right crank as the Sugino it has is wonderful.
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Old 07-11-12, 10:46 PM
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Oh yeah, this thread needs pics.
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