"ANTIQUE" Simplex Derailleur
10-03-11, 11:52 AM
#1
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"ANTIQUE" Simplex Derailleur
I have had this derailleur for over 35 years, and now I am compelled to part with it because I need the money to fund my addiction to buy a couple more bikes. (something the wife said about "hobby doesn't pencil"). Anyway, I would love to see this on some old steel French frame, but don't know exactly how old it is. I am thinking it was 20 years old when I acquired it in 1974. It might end up on eBay, but I hate the thought actually. Any information/advice my C&V friends could impart would be much appreciated.
10-03-11, 12:01 PM
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10-03-11, 12:13 PM
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I believe its a "Tour de France", or some such.
10-03-11, 01:51 PM
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"Antique" Simplex Derailleur
Yes, I agree, it is a Tour de France, Ca. 1948-1950. Interesting that the picture on the site, the chain is on wrong, and it appears to be shifting only a 3 cog cluster! Very interesting! I am gratified to see that mine is in near mint condition compaired to that one.
Thanks for that link!
Last edited by Gyro_T; 10-03-11 at 01:52 PM. Reason: acknowledgement
10-03-11, 03:16 PM
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I have two, the 3 and 4 speed both for a 1/8"chain, using one on a 1948 Australian made lightweight built for my father.
more info is at Classic Lightweight site here and here, the second link explains the chain path and how it is often misunderstood.
Hilary Stone holds the view that
"In the late 1940s and 1950s these gears dominated professional (and a lot of amateur) cycle racing with good reason – they offered a faster sweeter change than even Campagnolo’s Gran Sport gear introduced in 1951. The Simplex gears were so good that they were almost capable of being indexed due to their ultra precise shifting. The Gran Sport and its derivatives were to dominate the racing scene later but this was because of their other qualities, robustness and ease of set-up primarily…"
It gets the TDF from its wins at the TDF see here
Last edited by Clydesdale Scot; 10-03-11 at 03:51 PM. Reason: extra information
10-03-11, 04:20 PM
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Wow, I sure learn a lot from hanging out with you guy, (and girls). Thanks to you all.
10-03-11, 05:24 PM
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You really don't. Huret made a "knock-off". I have one. It shifts horribly compared to the Campagnolo Gran Sport I have in its place. The coil spring is not smooth in any way. Cool looking but functioally sketchy.
10-03-11, 06:19 PM
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I wish I had a machine suitable for that derailleur because I sure do want it.
This ""knock-off" and a set of Phillips alloy pedals led me to a '49 Maclean, imagine what you could catch with that Simplex!
10-03-11, 10:44 PM
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Velognome, beautiful derailleur. thanks for sharing that.
Last edited by Gyro_T; 10-03-11 at 10:47 PM. Reason: forgot somethin
10-04-11, 06:16 AM
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By all means, use the derailleur. You might find it acceptable. I was just sharing my experience. And while technically the Huret is a knock-off, its quality is on par with the Simplex as I have seen the two side to side. Its design limits its functionality especially when compared the the Gran Sport from the same era. The paralleogram derailleur is here to stay. The coil spring is not. I have no idea what Hilary was smoking when he wrote that.
10-04-11, 06:43 AM
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The paralleogram derailleur is here to stay. The coil spring is not. I have no idea what Hilary was smoking when he wrote that.
10-04-11, 07:56 AM
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The Simplex gear has a sprung top pivot unlike the otherwise similar Huret and Cyclo Benelux rear gears – this is one of the key features of modern indexed gears. With the Simplex it allows delightful shifting with vitual no overshift of the lever required... Campag GS gears always required the lever to be overshifted.
10-04-11, 08:50 AM
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My mechanic just scored a really old-looking Automoto frame from a guy in Guadalajara (how did it end up there?). It has a brazed-on mount with a Simplex shift lever, probably for a TdF. I'm pretty envious right now, but I'll try to at least get some pix to share.
10-04-11, 10:14 AM
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I had an early 50s Atala with a Simplex Tour de France. Can't say it worked all that well, but my experience really started in the 70s. Yes, the chain does run through it differently than "modern" deraillers.
10-04-11, 10:53 AM
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Gran Sport from the same era
Not the same era, correct?
10-04-11, 06:37 PM
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Incorrect.
TdF introduced in 1948 and made throughout the 50s.
GS introduced in 1951 and made throughout the 50s.
Same era. Unless of course you think 3 years constitutes an era.
Also, for the third time, the problem with this type of derailleur is the pull-chain and coil spring directly moving the jockey cage side to side. It is a horrible setup. When shifting by the cable pulling on the chain, it translates that force by nearly 90 degrees against the force of the coil spring to move the chain. That 90 degree shift in force causes the whole derailleur to torque which then twists the chain across the cogs. It makes for a loud and sloppy shift. Now maybe with a new derailleur with no wear, the twisting doesn't occur, but my TdF is nowhere near NOS.
With the parallelogram of the GS on the otherhand, the cable is pulling on on the derailleur body instead of directly on the jockey wheels. The torque created is actually supposed to "twist" the deraileur body. But in the case of the GS, the jockey cage stays parallel to the cogs for a smooth, quiet shift. Sure, I may have to overshift a bit but it is nonetheless an easier shift.
TdF introduced in 1948 and made throughout the 50s.
GS introduced in 1951 and made throughout the 50s.
Same era. Unless of course you think 3 years constitutes an era.
Also, for the third time, the problem with this type of derailleur is the pull-chain and coil spring directly moving the jockey cage side to side. It is a horrible setup. When shifting by the cable pulling on the chain, it translates that force by nearly 90 degrees against the force of the coil spring to move the chain. That 90 degree shift in force causes the whole derailleur to torque which then twists the chain across the cogs. It makes for a loud and sloppy shift. Now maybe with a new derailleur with no wear, the twisting doesn't occur, but my TdF is nowhere near NOS.
With the parallelogram of the GS on the otherhand, the cable is pulling on on the derailleur body instead of directly on the jockey wheels. The torque created is actually supposed to "twist" the deraileur body. But in the case of the GS, the jockey cage stays parallel to the cogs for a smooth, quiet shift. Sure, I may have to overshift a bit but it is nonetheless an easier shift.
10-04-11, 08:16 PM
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Era meaning paradigm shift not so much a time value. The Simplex belongs to an era which began in the 30's with chain pulls and lever shift systems. While the Tdf and the Gran Sport share a time period, the Simplex time was ending the Gran Sport was begining. I'm sure the Gran Sport does shift better, that does not reduce the "way cool" factor of the Simplex, IMHO anyway.
10-05-11, 06:17 AM
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I'd say the Simplex ushed in the era of 2 jockey wheels. Prior to the war, racers had an unrational fear of friction. They kept the gears low to keep the chainline straight and a single jockey wheel to keep the minimum amount touching the chain.
The TdF changed all of that. Racers now accepted the dual wheel approach. I think that is more innovative than the GS. The GS only improved on moving the dual jockey wheels from side to side. All the heavy lifting was done by the TdF.
The TdF changed all of that. Racers now accepted the dual wheel approach. I think that is more innovative than the GS. The GS only improved on moving the dual jockey wheels from side to side. All the heavy lifting was done by the TdF.
10-05-11, 07:39 AM
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But don't the Cyclo standard and Oppy derailleurs (which use two jockey wheels) precede the Simplex by a dozen or more years?
I have no first hand experience with the Simplex TdF, but the similar derailleurs I've worked with --Cyclo Benelux and Resilion-- are extremely difficult to work with. They shift quite well when set up well, but adjustment is prohibitively difficult. It is easier to respace the axle, by moving washers around and that kind of thing, than to adjust the lateral travel of the derailleur. These derailleurs taught me to patch a tube without removing the wheel from the dropouts, how's that for a recommendation!
When you compare any of those --Simplex, Huret, Cyclo Benelux, Resilion-- to the Campy Gran Sport, it is obvious that the Gran Sport was a game changer. Regardless whether this was evident at the time (and I can only guess it was), six decades' worth of derailleurs have built on the Gran Sport design while the pull chain derailleurs have been obsolete for five of those decades, if not all six.
I have no first hand experience with the Simplex TdF, but the similar derailleurs I've worked with --Cyclo Benelux and Resilion-- are extremely difficult to work with. They shift quite well when set up well, but adjustment is prohibitively difficult. It is easier to respace the axle, by moving washers around and that kind of thing, than to adjust the lateral travel of the derailleur. These derailleurs taught me to patch a tube without removing the wheel from the dropouts, how's that for a recommendation!
When you compare any of those --Simplex, Huret, Cyclo Benelux, Resilion-- to the Campy Gran Sport, it is obvious that the Gran Sport was a game changer. Regardless whether this was evident at the time (and I can only guess it was), six decades' worth of derailleurs have built on the Gran Sport design while the pull chain derailleurs have been obsolete for five of those decades, if not all six.
10-05-11, 09:53 AM
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Maybe you'll have better luck than I did. I listed a similar Simplex derailleur on eBay a few months ago, new in box. Mine was the Champion du Monde model, which I bought about 3 years ago for ~$160. Even after slashing the price, there really wasn't much interest.
10-05-11, 10:06 AM
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Trouble is these are really cool, but the weak global economy has all but stopped sales of anything "extra". In former times, I'd have been all over things like this- now so many of us are fighting to keep our electricity on and a roof over our heads that these have fallen prey to those who have extra money. Since the times have become desperate, the market has narrowed considerably. Those with some extra money have their pick of whatever those of us who are less fortunate must part with- at bargain prices, because we need the scratch. Such a special interest piece would have a limited market to begin with, then add in how many folks who are still financially well off would be interested in an old derailleur... Thus prices have gone to hell with the economy. Hard times..