CMillerRosales

Hey there all!
I'm rebuilding the bike my father passed down to me, a beautiful Reynolds 531 lugged Mercian. The hubs are currently nuovo record in the rear, and I believe nuovo tipo in front (there is no oil port). The rims are nameless and the rear rim is impossible to get trued because it has a wobble--I have tried truing and took it a shop who did it the best they could, but still not satisfactory.

The question is: should I rebuild these hubs to new rims or buy an old Phil Wood set? The rear spacing is 120mm and I do not want to coldset it. I have spoken to Rich Lesnik from Hands on Wheels/Rivendell and he suggested a rebuild with Velocity Synergy rims. This would cost around $400 (100 spokes/labor+70 rim +20 polish/overhaul x 2 wheels). I am certain I would get an amazing build but that is a lot of money. Also, I am not certain the nuovo tipo (not the record in back) is worth a rebuild, do you think it is good enough quality?

There is currently a take-off wheelset from an old Paramount that would work perfectly with the build. 40-hole rear and 36-hole front, which might be a little overkill for my riding. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/3110925327.html
$275 seems a bit steep, but this is San Francisco Bay Area.

Last option, is a possible hidden gem. It is also a Phil Wood Wheelset on a bike for $200. There is not much information, just that a non-profit is selling it, and mentions the bike having a Phil wheelset. For $200 I can take the wheelset and turn the bike into a cheap commuter with another wheelset! https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/bik/3133964295.html

Overall, I want the best possible wheelset for this bike, as I want to keep it so long that I could pass it onto my kids one day. Which way would be best? The bike is not for touring, but rather fun Sunday rides, and I would not be riding it off curbs, just on road. I weight 175 pounds and want to run the bike with 32mm tires.

Money isn't the biggest concern, I just want the best quality 5 speed wheelset I can have. I think the bike deserves it! Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks all,
Chris

CMillerRosales

Oh and I realize the Phil Wood set is 27 inch and the synergys will probably be 700c, but I am buying new dual pivot brakes for the bike anyway, so I will adjust as needed.

Drillium Dude 

I can't say enough good things about the one Phil Wood wheelset I have. I do need to send the front to him for a bearing set replacement, but that's the beauty of these things: it can still be done, no matter the vintage of hub.

Hard to tell from the photos of the Centurion, but I wonder if that rear PW is a high-low?

BTW, the build cost does not include hubs, does it? If not, I'd consider keeping your eyes peeled on Ebay - you can find great PW wheelsets for around that price already built and save some money.

DD

mkeller234

That Phil wood set sounds pretty nice. There is nothing wrong with Tipo hubs, but it would drive me crazy to build wheels that don't match. I'm sure the Velocity wheels are nice, but that is a whole lot of cash to spend. Velomine has nice wheels, Ultegra hubs and Mavic open pro rims for around $250 dollars. They are machine built, but mine have had zero issues and spin perfectly true.

CMillerRosales

Thanks for the quick responses! The price for the Rich Lesnik build was to re-use the current hubs I have (one Nuovo Record, one Nuovo Tipo). I do not mind mis-matching wheels much, just care about quality.

The Paramount take-off seem like they would work perfectly but they are the old non-butted spokes. Once again I'm not doing any load-carrying. Would the 36/40 and Super Champion rim be very heavy? I don't mind extra weight if it means a better wheelset and more durability though.

Thanks Mmkeller, but I think those might be too wide for the frame. This is an old 10 speed and spreading the 120mm ends is something I'd rather avoid. Those are some gorgeous rims I'm considering for another project though.

mkeller234

I understand not wanting to cold set that frame. Those hubs might look odd in a Paramount too.

Why not check and see what a local shop would charge to rebuild those wheels with new rims? You would save on shipping for starters. If the are hand built, you can sweat the little details like making sure the hubs face the same directions, valve holes line up with hub logos and so on. Peter White is another option.

CMillerRosales

Most of the Phil Wood wheelsets I am finding are about 4 gears short (fixed gear sets).

CMillerRosales

I've asked some local shops and they have prices not too far off from Rich Lesnik. I'd rather spend the extra few bucks since I've heard nothing but good things from him, plus he is local and I won't have to ship them. The bike's actually a Mercian, and the Paramount take-offs I was referring to were from a Craigslist ad.

Why did my cycling hobby have to get so expensive?

CMillerRosales

And sorry, I'm not sure what is meant by "high-low," could someone explain it please?

mkeller234

The spoke flanges on the hub would be high on one side and low on the other. Usually a hub has flanges that match on both sides.

I should have noticed that it was a Mercian. Love those bikes, mine is sitting right beside me now.

CMillerRosales

After some thought, I am heavily leaning toward buying the Phil Wood wheelset. I want high quality that will last, and this seems to be it. The nuovo record would be nice because they match the rear derailleur and vintage campy is always nice, but if Phil Wood is a better product then I should put it on. My only concerns are:
1. Will a 40/36 touring set-up weight a bunch?
2. Are the wheelsets worth the asking price of $275?
3. 27" tire size is a little hard, but I'd probably stick to Pasela TG's anyway

If they were on a Paramount then they must be good quality, right?!

Michael Angelo 

I would make sure that the Rims are hook bead, and the Phil Hubs don't need new bearings. Personally, I would build up a new set of wheels with low Flange record hubs, DB Spokes and Open Pro Rims.

rootboy 

I like the suggestion directly above. Or, find a Record front hub to make a matched set and use those.

peazweag

If your going to ride the bike alot phils are hard to beat.Plus no maintinance required,I have had several sets over the years and have no complaints.

1987

I guess from a US point of view, vintage Phil is the most popular choice. But from a European viewpoint it's Nuovo Record.

rootboy 

I find this notion interesting. A bit off topic but, I fly fish with a friend who owns a sealed drag reel. Has to send it back to the manufacturer, every year, to have it cleaned and maintained. And if something goes wrong, he can't even diagnose it himself. I can take mine apart, clean and lube it whenever I need to. Not a super analogy I admit, but, I like to be able to maintain my own Campy hubs. Nothing against Phil of course. I know they're beautiful hubs, but cones and ball bearings just seems so much more... "natural" to my C&V tastes.

sced

Record hubs are legendary for quality and longevity. I'd repack the hub to make sure it's good to go, buy a new rim and spokes off the internet, lace it yourself, do a rough true if you can, then take it to a shop for a final true....for less than $100, and it'll be what your dad wanted it to be.

wrk101

If that bike with the PW hubs was here in Hooterville, I would be all over it. I cannot imagine it still being available in SF.

miamijim

Phil Wood hubs have their quirks. That being said, if if I had the options I'd go with the Phil's.

Mercian Rider

Nouvo Record=excellent.

Phil Wood=the ultimate. And the Company is there to service/rebuild if needed.

One caveat--condition matters, including and perhaps most importantly the spoke holes. IMO there's a finite number of times alloy hubs can be rebuilt, depending on the skill with which they've been built in the past. Since you're having someone else build them, they should be able to make that evaluation.

SJX426 

Do both. Another good option is Mavic 500 series. I don't think there is significant difference between the Tipo, that looks like records. and records. Someone, sorry can't remember who, stated the only difference is the ball bearing diameter. The only issue with the Campagnolo hubs is continued availability of cones and races. The Mavic's use a standard sealed bearing that will be available for a very long time. Don't have an experience with PW hubs. I am with wrk101 in grabbing the PW equiped bike.

BTW: straight guage spokes are not as strong as DB spokes. 40 spoke is overkill unless you are going to put serious weight on the bike. That wheel set sounds like a touring set up.

Mercian Rider

^^^ Agree on Mavic 500s. Have been riding 503s for about 15 years--still perfect.

JohnDThompson 

Different diameter hub flanges were fashionable in the 70s:

Wulf

Untold number of rebuilds. Changed fro 120 to 126 myself. They will be going long after im gone.

CMillerRosales

Now that I think about it, rebuilding the wheels myself sounds like a beautiful way to continue the legacy of the bike. I could get away with only rebuilding the rear wheel since the front is doing fine.

I am considering buying the Phil set for now until I have the time (and patience!) to build the record wheelset. Maybe even look around for a matching front hub. The worst thing that could happen is I have a sick set of Phil's for a commuter and my own hand-built wheel for my vintage beauty!

The prospect of re-using the same hubs my dad was on, while riding a wheel built by my own hand sounds like a glorious feeling. I'll probably start another thread in the future on the best rims to build the wheel up with. Should I try building another wheel before this, or is it okay to use it as my first build as long as the spokes/rims are new?

Does anybody know if the old Super Champion rims are hook bead?