Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

I Don't Get It - Is This a Scam?

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

I Don't Get It - Is This a Scam?

Old 07-15-12, 08:09 AM
  #51  
thenomad
Riding like its 1990
 
thenomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IE, SoCal
Posts: 3,773
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I just revised an auction I have for a frame to state, "no fork is included" where the photo is of only the frame, no fork. Just have to be sure.

Maybe I should also state the wickr backet it is on is not included, hmmmm.
thenomad is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 08:15 AM
  #52  
Drakonchik
Senior Member
 
Drakonchik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
There is an additional tactical move no one has mentioned. If your Buyer is himself selling something on ebay, then buy one of his items. Be sure it is the most poorly described, ambiguous item, with the most tricky or awkward return shipping scenario. Then buy it. Now you have him by the gonads, assuming feedback means anything to him.

I have done this once, and my Buyer's posture "mellowed" considerably immediately after I bought his item.

Last edited by Drakonchik; 07-15-12 at 08:19 AM.
Drakonchik is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 08:18 AM
  #53  
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 16,807

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Drakonchik View Post
There is an additional tactical move no one has mentioned. If your Buyer is himself selling something on ebay, then buy one of his items. Be sure it is the most poorly described, ambiguous item, with the most tricky or awkward return shipping scenario. Then buy it. Now you have him by the gonads, assuming feedback means anything to him.
Seems like a lot of work over a dispute for $10. Maybe some of you folks have more fire in your bellies, but life is difficult enough without making mole hills like this into mountains. How much pyschological energy has been expended on this issue? That energy is worth more than $10 to me.

Life isn't fair and you have to pick your battles. This wouldn't be worth fighting for me.
KonAaron Snake is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 08:22 AM
  #54  
thenomad
Riding like its 1990
 
thenomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IE, SoCal
Posts: 3,773
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
a-hole buyers never have anything for sale. maybe because they fear their twin?
thenomad is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 08:27 AM
  #55  
Drakonchik
Senior Member
 
Drakonchik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 734
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Seems like a lot of work over a dispute for $10. Maybe some of you folks have more fire in your bellies, but life is difficult enough without making mole hills like this into mountains. How much pyschological energy has been expended on this issue? That energy is worth more than $10 to me.

Life isn't fair and you have to pick your battles. This wouldn't be worth fighting for me.
In this case I agree with you, because the stand or the equivalent compensation does not amount to much. However had the accessory in question in this thread been extremely valuable, then the tactical move I described could offer quite significant leverage. The time that I used it, the item I bought from my Buyer was a $6 tool. Yet the effect of my buying from him was out of proportion to the value of the tool, with my Buyer's tone changing immediately and he stopped insisting on anything.

Last edited by Drakonchik; 07-15-12 at 08:30 AM.
Drakonchik is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 08:30 AM
  #56  
KonAaron Snake 
Fat Guy on a Little Bike
 
KonAaron Snake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 16,807

Bikes: Two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Drakonchik View Post
In this case I agree with you. Had the accessory in question in this thread been extremely valuable, however, then the tactical move I described could be very useful. The time that I used it, the item I bought from my Buyer was a $6 tool. Yet the leverage is potentially very large.
It's definitely clever. I wonder how the assigned eBay dispute resolution expert would react.
KonAaron Snake is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 08:49 AM
  #57  
qcpmsame 
Semper Fi
 
qcpmsame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Barrineau Park, Florida
Posts: 12,437

Bikes: '80 Medici Pro Strada, '86 Tommasini Prestige, '12 CAAD 10 Ultegra

Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 982 Post(s)
Liked 16 Times in 14 Posts
I have taken one thing from this thread, I will never sell anything on eBay, ever. I have made over 150 purchases over the last decade, mainly motorcycle and bicycle parts, one complete Cannondale bicycle and have had no bad experiences. My daughter sold a few American Doll items through my account with no problems. Now I have had my eyes opened to what eBay does if an unscrupulous buyer (or just a crappy person buying) wants to screw a seller. I was going to sell a large amount of vintage dirt bike parts for a Maico motocrosser but now I think I'll find a motorcycle swap meet or just keep the parts and build the motorcycle (I have everything, save bearings and gaskets/seals) and not fool with eBay anymore. This will slow my c&V bicycle plans a bit but I really think eBay is becoming too commercialized and will not protect sellers well enough. Just my take, I know many here use eBay and like it but the increasing number of accounts like this one have turned me off.

And FWIW, I'd send him the show stand and block him from buying from me if possible.

Bill
__________________
I Didn't Choose To Have Parkinson's Disease, I Have Chosen Not To Allow It To Define How I Live
Life Member "Hairy Eared Engineer's Society"
"I Can Do All Things Through Christ, Whom Strengthens Me" Philippians 4:13
qcpmsame is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 08:57 AM
  #58  
thenomad
Riding like its 1990
 
thenomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IE, SoCal
Posts: 3,773
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The one swap meet I did worked out really well, only problem was I bought about as much as I sold!
thenomad is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 09:10 AM
  #59  
3alarmer
******
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 17,274

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 227 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14547 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 63 Posts
Please send me one of your display stands, too.

This will avoid all the hassles and lost time in my
bidding on one of your other listed bikes and then
holding you hostage to the possibility of bad feedback.

I think you'll agree this way is just cleaner all around.......................
3alarmer is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 09:31 AM
  #60  
pcb 
Senior Member
 
pcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Joisey
Posts: 854
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 125 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by qcpmsame View Post
I have taken one thing from this thread, I will never sell anything on eBay, ever....but I really think eBay is becoming too commercialized and will not protect sellers well enough. Just my take, I know many here use eBay and like it but the increasing number of accounts like this one have turned me off.

And FWIW, I'd send him the show stand and block him from buying from me if possible.

Bill
Blocking bidders on current/future auctions is easily done, not mentioned here before---thanks for bringing it up! A seller can block an insane number of bidders, over 1,000 IIRC, and I block plenty. If you've unjustly (in my view) filed a complaint, you're blocked. If you "bid by mistake" and don't complete the transaction, you're blocked. If you didn't pay on time, you're blocked. If you ask a question that makes me feel like you're an OCD type looking for things to complain about, you're blocked. If you ask an idiotic question, you're blocked. If you ask a question, and I check your feedback and find a pattern of problems with buyers, you're blocked. If you cancel a bid, you're blocked. This only slightly lessens the pool of potential idiot and problem-causing bidders, but it's one of the only somewhat proactive protection tools sellers have.

Everyone has to decide their own level of tolerance for this stuff. I'll say that although my gut tells me my percentage of problem auctions is rising, for the most part it is still a very small percentage. We're not flooding message boards every time we successfully sell something, but we'll post when we run into trouble.

My biggest problem these days is non-paying bidders. They win, they never contact me, they don't pay. So I'm out time/effort, no cash. This happens more often on low-value items that are readily available from other sellers, also low-value items that are large and expensive to ship. Not likely to happen with a clean Super Record rder, more likely to happen on a cheap $10 handlebar/stem combo that costs $15 to ship.

And to be fair, I can understand bidders worried about undisclosed problems. Even if the full 12 picture quota is used, how do I know a significant problem isn't shown? It' not always the bidder.

I once bought a beautiful Tom Kellogg Spectrum frameset at the Philly Bike Swap. Relatively recent build, my size, lovely paint, attractive price on the tiny little price sticker on the top tube. Got it home, peeled off the little price sticker to find a small handlebar dent underneath. It wasn't structural, I would have bought it anyway, but I did feel cheated. Seller sat there knowing he hid a dent, hoping nobody asked to look under the price tag. It wasn't worth trying to track him down, and it taught me a valuable lesson. But if it had been an ebay sale it would have been easy-peasy to get the seller's attention and get it resolved.
pcb is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 09:32 AM
  #61  
wrk101
Thrifty Bill
 
wrk101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 22,018

Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more

Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 654 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 39 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by thenomad View Post
a-hole buyers never have anything for sale. maybe because they fear their twin?
This is exactly what I have found. 99% of my buyers have never sold a single item, and on the ridiculous ones, 100% have never sold an item (like the joker that flamed me on long shipping, even though I sent the item priority the morning after he paid for the item, I guess that was not fast enough for him).

Whether to use ebay or not is a personal decision for sure. I think newb sellers underestimate three factors: 1. The variance on auctions, high to low (getting a high price can be a lot of work), 2. The amount of time and effort it takes to create a good listing, and 3. That the system is totally, completely tilted in the buyer's favor.

+1 I get a deadbeat buyer about once a month. They have all kinds of excuses, or just ignore me completely. A couple have wanted me to cancel the auction (so they did not get a deadbeat strike). And unfortunately, if I forced them to complete the transaction, all they have to do is then claim the item is damaged or whatever, return it to me at my expense, and then flame me with negative feedback).
__________________
See my vintage steel bike tribute page on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/BillsVintageSteelBikes

Last edited by wrk101; 07-15-12 at 09:38 AM.
wrk101 is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 09:39 AM
  #62  
jim hughes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As others have pointed out, ebay is now heavily weighted against sellers. Any complaint from a buyer, however nonsensical, and their PayPal subsidiary simply holds the payment. Ebay then draws interest on the huge ongoing cash float created by blocked transactions - and good luck getting any response. I no longer sell anything of significant value on ebay. It's a company that's lost its way.
jim hughes is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 10:32 AM
  #63  
conradpdx
Senior Member
 
conradpdx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 301

Bikes: 70"s Raleigh Superbe, 1959 Murray Vanguard Middle weigh cruiser

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just be glad he didn't dispute the claim with Paypal or his credit card company. My wife and I have a small jewelry business/studio and we sell a lot on line. We sold a sterling silver ring set to a customer last December, didn't hear anything until nearly Valentines Day. At that point the buyer complained (in a very accusatory tone) that she didn't think it was silver because the rings "smelled funny" and wanted a refund. We have a posted no return policy on custom orders but we kindly offered her a return minus a 20% restocking fee (it's hard to resell custom rings and even more so a set of rings - worse case we recast the silver). To calm her down we gave her links to companies that we buy our silver casting grain from and our other silver sources, and thinking the "smell" might be the wax we use to help preserve the metals, links to that product as well, which is the same stuff most jewelers and museums use to protect precious metals.

Not good enough - she complained about the return shipping and the restocking fee. The way everything was worded in her emails she wasn't interested in returning the rings, she just wanted a refund.

She then placed a complaint with Paypal. Her big mistake was that she reported that she didn't receive them. We sent in the tracking numbers to Paypal as well as copies of her emails complaining about the smell of the merchandise. Took about two months for Paypal to find in our favor and release the funds to our account.

Still not satisfied the customer then placed a complaint with her credit card company, this time claiming we had misrepresented our rings. Still claiming that they didn't smell like silver. Once again Paypal froze funds in our account, until the matter was resolved. Just about a week ago we got our money unfrozen when the credit card company found in our favor too.

Sad thing is that if she was upfront and honest with us that she or the other person that the rings were for didn't like them, or that she had hit hard times and really needed the money. We probably would have taken the set back with no restocking fee (she'd still have to pay the shipping a whopping $2.00). We've been there, my wife and I aren't some big heartless company. But to basically accuse of fraud, isn't the way to get us to cooperate.

Of course, we were battling it out over $150.00 and not $10.00. We would eat the $10.00 in a heart beat to keep our scores high. In the long run it really isn't worth the time and frustration it over such a small amount. But we'd also never work with that buyer again.

Online sales truly does have it's moments.
conradpdx is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 10:45 AM
  #64  
vjp
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have only bought on ebay, and it is under 50 transactions.

Before the policy changes that now favor the buyer, every 4th or 5th seller wouldn't bother to leave any feedback for me even though I paid minutes after winning , left feedback for them and gently reminded them with a kiss ass note if they could please leave me a feedback.

I love the new rules! Always get a feedback now!
vjp is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 11:08 AM
  #65  
gioscinelli 
Senior Member
 
gioscinelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,244

Bikes: 2012 Moots VaMoots-74 Peugeot Mixtie U018-73 Peugeot U018

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Open a dispute case with Ebay with the explanation that the buy is trying to extort more than what was offered. The first person to open a dispute get's favorable results from Ebay and Paypal. Get the name of the Ebay or Paypal Representative, and employee's number as reference and ask what procedures should be taken to resolve this issue. If you send what ever part to the buyer by USPS, go to the postal clerk to physically take possession and ask for acceptance receipt when scanned, or say please scan for acceptance for reference. It's not worth the time or the aggravation to defend your position, just send the part and chalk it up as experience.
__________________
Moots VaMoots 2012-Peugeot Mixte 1974-Peugeot Mixte 1973
gioscinelli is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 08:06 PM
  #66  
4Rings6Stars
Señor Member
 
4Rings6Stars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boston Burbs
Posts: 1,701

Bikes: Bedford, IF, Hampsten, DeSalvo, Intense Carbine 27.5, Raleigh Sports, Bianchi C.u.S.S, Soma DC Disc, Bill Boston Tandem

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
On the Boston CL. Fortunately, Craigslist doesn't have the same buyer-biased policies as ebay, or else somebody might be getting a little something extra with their Olmo...

4Rings6Stars is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 08:17 PM
  #67  
Drillium Dude 
NNNN
 
Drillium Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 9,244

Bikes: 1973 Colnago Super, 1973 Colnago Super concept, 1979 Medici Pro Strada, 1979 Dennis Sparrow, 1980 Alpina, 1983 Colnago Mexico, 1985 Casati Perfection, 1985 Somec Super Corsa, 2002 Bill Davidson custom

Mentioned: 160 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 971 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by vjp View Post
I love the new rules! Always get a feedback now!
Yeah - now it's the buyers who don't leave any feedback

DD
__________________
My Flickr pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30331021@N08/

Drillium Dude is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 08:18 PM
  #68  
Drillium Dude 
NNNN
 
Drillium Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bothell, WA
Posts: 9,244

Bikes: 1973 Colnago Super, 1973 Colnago Super concept, 1979 Medici Pro Strada, 1979 Dennis Sparrow, 1980 Alpina, 1983 Colnago Mexico, 1985 Casati Perfection, 1985 Somec Super Corsa, 2002 Bill Davidson custom

Mentioned: 160 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 971 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by 4Rings6Stars View Post
On the Boston CL. Fortunately, Craigslist doesn't have the same buyer-biased policies as ebay, or else somebody might be getting a little something extra with their Olmo...

You mean that lovely wall-mounted display thing? Sweet

DD
__________________
My Flickr pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30331021@N08/

Drillium Dude is offline  
Old 07-15-12, 10:47 PM
  #69  
frantik
Chainstay Brake Mafia
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: California
Posts: 6,028
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
^ i could use a hardwood floor
frantik is offline  
Old 07-16-12, 06:05 AM
  #70  
jolly_ross
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 621
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This is why I never sell on ebay - I give stuff away on Freecycle. Even then people b!tch and whine sometimes, amazing.

Good luck with this - I hope it works out fairly for you.
jolly_ross is offline  
Old 07-16-12, 07:18 AM
  #71  
Bikedued
Senior Member
 
Bikedued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,929
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Send him the stand, but.... Go find a little known rust preventitive called boiled linseed oil. Find a large ziploc bag, add about 2 cups of the oil, and the stand. That is the nastiest stuff I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with, and I think he deserves it.,,,,BD
__________________
So many bikes, so little dime.
Bikedued is offline  
Old 07-16-12, 07:34 AM
  #72  
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Posts: 16,622
Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by 4Rings6Stars View Post
That little rascal is well-trained. Checking for bottom bracket threading compatibility.
rootboy is online now  
Old 07-16-12, 07:41 AM
  #73  
thenomad
Riding like its 1990
 
thenomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IE, SoCal
Posts: 3,773
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by vjp View Post
I have only bought on ebay, and it is under 50 transactions.

Before the policy changes that now favor the buyer, every 4th or 5th seller wouldn't bother to leave any feedback for me even though I paid minutes after winning , left feedback for them and gently reminded them with a kiss ass note if they could please leave me a feedback.

I love the new rules! Always get a feedback now!
I hardly ever get feedback anymore. I can't leave feedback so what's the point for me. I dont leave any till they do.
thenomad is offline  
Old 07-16-12, 09:22 AM
  #74  
thenomad
Riding like its 1990
 
thenomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IE, SoCal
Posts: 3,773
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by thenomad View Post
I just revised an auction I have for a frame to state, "no fork is included" where the photo is of only the frame, no fork. Just have to be sure.

Maybe I should also state the wickr backet it is on is not included, hmmmm.
AHA!
Glad I revised it. The photo showed NO FORK. The description from ebay said "FRAME ONLY" not the "Frame and fork" option. After I changed the description the bidder retracted their bid saying my revision was why they backed out. Glad I didn't have that one expecting a fork that was never even shown. Ebay would have sided in his favor I'm sure.
thenomad is offline  
Old 07-16-12, 02:09 PM
  #75  
kiwigem
Fahrrad Mama
 
kiwigem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 4Rings6Stars View Post
On the Boston CL. Fortunately, Craigslist doesn't have the same buyer-biased policies as ebay, or else somebody might be getting a little something extra with their Olmo...

Originally Posted by frantik View Post
^ i could use a hardwood floor
and I could always use another baby, apparently.
kiwigem is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.