Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Replacing an AVA death stem on an old Peugeot.

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Replacing an AVA death stem on an old Peugeot.

Old 07-20-12, 04:17 PM
  #1  
OrangeHorse
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OrangeHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 69

Bikes: All-City Space Horse, Peugeot UO-18 mixte, Schwinn Sprint (my childhood 10-speed), Trek 820 (husband's)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Replacing an AVA death stem on an old Peugeot.

I picked up my UO-18 mixte a couple weeks ago, and of course I soon realized that it came with an AVA "death stem" that folks like Sheldon Brown recommend replacing ASAP. I figured that at least if I get a new stem and sand it down to fit the 22.0 steerer, I can get some nice new handlebars and not worry about French sizing. So I got myself some VO Montmartre handlebars which I'm very excited about.

Anyway, the point of all of this is that I like the look of the Nitto quill stems, but they cost more than what I paid for the bike. I ordered a Kalloy quill stem, and then I started reading some reviews that made me nervous that they are shoddy. Does anyone have any opinions on that? I don't want to replace a death stem with something else that won't be functional! Also, any reason the Kalloy won't work on an old French steerer if it is sanded?

Last question, if the Kalloy is crap, is there anything with that classic look that has a price point falling between the Kalloy and Nitto?

Thank you!!
OrangeHorse is offline  
Old 07-20-12, 05:18 PM
  #2  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,454

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20834 Post(s)
Liked 3,819 Times in 2,808 Posts
My impression of Kalloy products is that they are
perfectly serviceable but not nearly as nicely finished
and polished (and marketed) as Nitto's.

I've heard nothing in regard to failures a la the AVA.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 07-20-12, 05:33 PM
  #3  
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Posts: 16,756
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 115 Times in 67 Posts
I picked up an older Nitto on ebay for a buck, plus shipping. They're out there. Could always use an old Pivo.
rootboy is offline  
Old 07-20-12, 05:40 PM
  #4  
photogravity
Hopelessly addicted...
 
photogravity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Central Maryland
Posts: 5,007

Bikes: 1949 Hercules Kestrel, 1950 Norman Rapide, 1970 Schwinn Collegiate, 1972 Peugeot UE-8, 1976 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Raleigh Sports, 1977 Jack Taylor Tandem, 1984 Davidson Tandem, 2010 Bilenky "BQ" 650B Constructeur Tandem, 2011 Linus Mixte

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Kalloy is NOT crap

Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
My impression of Kalloy products is that they are
perfectly serviceable but not nearly as nicely finished
and polished (and marketed) as Nitto's.

I've heard nothing in regard to failures a la the AVA.
I concur entirely with your assessment. I've used Kalloy parts and cannot remember any issues or failures of any sort. They may not always be as elegant as some other products, but if you're looking for something that works and aren't overly concerned with the aesthetics, I don't think you can go wrong.
photogravity is offline  
Old 07-20-12, 10:09 PM
  #5  
OrangeHorse
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OrangeHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 69

Bikes: All-City Space Horse, Peugeot UO-18 mixte, Schwinn Sprint (my childhood 10-speed), Trek 820 (husband's)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Great. Thanks, everyone! Now it seems as though my Kalloy stem isn't actually going to ship and is in fact discontinued, so I may be back to square one anyway.
OrangeHorse is offline  
Old 07-20-12, 10:26 PM
  #6  
uncle uncle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: south kansas america
Posts: 1,735

Bikes: too many

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 71 Posts
I've heard about the Ava death stem before. I think I have one on a junker biker that I've robbed for parts. Has anyone ever tried drilling a stress relieving hole at the top of the slot (refer to the red dot in the picture)? This could eliminate the potential hard spots caused by the sharp corners of the slot.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
avastem200.jpg (14.1 KB, 207 views)
uncle uncle is offline  
Old 07-20-12, 10:39 PM
  #7  
3alarmer
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Tomato
Posts: 19,454

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 274 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20834 Post(s)
Liked 3,819 Times in 2,808 Posts
Originally Posted by uncle uncle View Post
I've heard about the Ava death stem before. I think I have one on a junker biker that I've robbed for parts. Has anyone ever tried drilling a stress relieving hole at the top of the slot (refer to the red dot in the picture)? This could eliminate the potential hard spots caused by the sharp corners of the slot.
the true AVA "death stem is, I think, the generation that had the slot oriented
90 degrees from the one you've pictured........but they were also a thinner, more
lightweight casting.

I've still got a couple of AVA stems on bikes that I ride sometimes and they seem to
have held up OK. Not everything with the AVA on it is in the same boat.

But the consequences can be pretty severe in a failure.....I had a failure
of an alloy handlebar (without a steel sleeve) next to the insertion on
the stem that kinda put the fear into me. So I generally tell people to
just replace them.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 07-21-12, 12:00 AM
  #8  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,957

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1063 Post(s)
Liked 488 Times in 347 Posts
Some of the french-sized stems failed at the quill because they were tightened into a 22.2mm steerer, which started a crack at the top of the slot.
Schwinn even did this on many of their 1960's lightweights.
Quill stems that have been used with less than 2-1/2 diameters inserted are much more likely candidates for distortion cracks in the steerer.

If you've inspected your stem's quill, it's not time to panic.

Just about any replacement stem will be clamping down onto an undersized French handlebar, and you can be sure the product wasn't tested in that configuration.

I've heard of the stem-reducing process being referred to as sanding, and while it's true that only a couple of thenths of a millimeter, at most, needs to be removed from the surface of a 22.2mm steerer, these stems are made of hard alloy and you will likely end up using a file after your hands perhaps blister after relentless sanding.

Unless you're the type of rider that puts a lot of "push-pull" force to the ends of the handlebars while sprinting (or unless you are using a wider handlebar), you'll likely never notice the generous flex in an AVA stem and will almost surely never break one. This assumes that the stem is kept sufficiently inserted, keeping in mind that these stems (like virtually all others of this vintage) have no limit line inscribed on the steerer.

I've got AVA stems from the 50's and 60's on several of my bikes, which are ridden very hard in the hills.
I don't do the push-pull (twisting) weightlifting act when climbing out of the saddle. Why would I, when I can just as easily counter pedaling forces with a simple push to the left and right with both hands acting in the same direction?

As with any stem, avoid over-tightening the bolts. I've seen more Cinelli and TTT stems fail at the clamp bolt hole than I've seen AVA stems with even the beginnings of any kind of quill slot crack.
For anyone worried about the slots progressing into a crack, drilling a small stress-relief hole will prevent that possibility.

I had a handlebar break during practice at a 'cross race, but it was a low-quality bar that had been subjected to many years of racing off road.
Luckily, I didn't crash.

For a heavier rider who does frequent efforts out of the saddle, a stiffer stem than an AVA might give a welcome increase in stiffness and strength.
As well, any rider who does high mileage might well opt for an ultra-reliable stem like a Nitto.

And when "machining" a stem quill, it's best to do frequent test-fits so as to finish-sand only the burnished-looking areas that indicate interference. A well-fitted stem, with a proper-sized handlebar can be a noticeable improvement over the original French pieces.

Last edited by dddd; 07-21-12 at 01:54 AM.
dddd is offline  
Old 07-21-12, 12:37 AM
  #9  
realestvin7
Large Member
 
realestvin7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tejas
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
What length are you looking for? I have a few nice Frenchies that I'd part with.
realestvin7 is offline  
Old 07-21-12, 01:18 AM
  #10  
3speed
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 3,440
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by dddd View Post
...I've heard of the stem-reducing process being referred to as sanding, and while it's true that only a couple of thenths of a millimeter, at most, needs to be removed from the surface of a 22.2mm steerer, these stems are made of hard alloy and you will likely end up using a file after your hands perhaps blister after relentless sanding...
I'm no expert by any means, and you may well be right on all other accounts, but I would just like to add my experience on this matter to the mix. I've sanded down two stems to fit French sized Peugeots and both times it took me no time at all with a piece of standard brown colored sand paper. I've also sanded down an alloy seat post once that was really close to fitting. Again, it took not much at all. It seems that aluminum is soft enough to take material off quickly even if it is a hard alloy. No need at all to worry about blistering hands. A file is Definitely not even close to needed. People say to sand it down because even sand paper is more than adequate. And so many have done this and so little material needs to be removed that I really don't think it's a safety issue either. Sand away, OP.
3speed is offline  
Old 07-21-12, 04:00 AM
  #11  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,957

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1063 Post(s)
Liked 488 Times in 347 Posts
Sand away, and hopefully the parts are close enough already.

Sadly, not always the case, and even many Taiwan stems from 25 years ago (possibly of fortified silicon?-aluminum alloy) are surprisingly resistant to even a fresh sheet of coarse belt-sander paper and would take a good half-hour IF your hands could take it.
I've noticed that those stems have also been more resistant to polishing, fwiw.
The stems that I found easy to sand down were modern, welded aluminum ones. I also found a Cinelli stem easy to get fitted into a Gitane, but it could be that this fork steerer had a somewhat bigger ID.
No doubt some of these stems are only minutely larger than the inside of a "22.0" steerer, and some are also much more round than others.

Last edited by dddd; 07-21-12 at 04:16 AM.
dddd is offline  
Old 07-21-12, 05:57 AM
  #12  
rootboy 
Senior Member
 
rootboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wherever
Posts: 16,756
Mentioned: 88 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 115 Times in 67 Posts
Originally Posted by dddd View Post
I also found a Cinelli stem easy to get fitted into a Gitane, but it could be that this fork steerer had a somewhat bigger ID.
Interesting. I found a 22.2 stem easily fit into the steerer of my Gitane too.
rootboy is offline  
Old 07-21-12, 06:51 AM
  #13  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Sheldon Brown said that he believed that the problems with AVA stems and bars is due to inferior metallurgy. If that is so, there's no way to fix them.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 07-21-12, 09:38 AM
  #14  
OrangeHorse
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OrangeHorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 69

Bikes: All-City Space Horse, Peugeot UO-18 mixte, Schwinn Sprint (my childhood 10-speed), Trek 820 (husband's)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by realestvin7 View Post
What length are you looking for? I have a few nice Frenchies that I'd part with.
Hi! Oh, I'm flexible, but probably along the lines of 8cm-10cm (which is about what my current AVA is.) Do you have any that have a 25.4 clamp rather than the typical French 25.0 clamp? Thanks so much! (I tried to private message you, but I don't have enough posts.)
OrangeHorse is offline  
Old 07-21-12, 11:30 AM
  #15  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,957

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1063 Post(s)
Liked 488 Times in 347 Posts
Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
Interesting. I found a 22.2 stem easily fit into the steerer of my Gitane too.
Thanks for another data point.

I should have clarified, I did have to sand the Cinelli going into the Gitane, but it was more like 3Speed described, just a couple of minutes and a couple of test-fits to get it down to racing height.

And no, it wasn't one of the 22.0-sized Cinelli stems (which were clearly marked and which had 26.4mm bar clamp dia.).


OrangeHorse wrote:

"Do you have any that have a 25.4 clamp rather than the typical French 25.0 clamp?"

That's a problem with most French-sized stems, having to search out a 25.0 handlebar.
Some later-70's bikes did come with good, solid bars in a decently-wide width for average-plus sized American riders, but these are not that easy to find and many of these French-made bars turn out to be 25.4mm clamp dia.
The Cinelli stems with 22.0mm quill are scarce enough that I find it more prectical to sand down a normal Cinelli stem. These seem to need more sanding near the bottom, but little to none higher up where you might not want to sand the anodizing off. It helps to first massage the steerer entry (including the locknut) with a half-round file, but any chrome plating on the nut will tend to ruin the file for future use.


The metallurgy and dimensions of AVA stems make them unsuitable for wide handlebars and certain riding styles (primarily the twisting action that some riders apply through the bars). That said, lighter, calmer riders with AVA stems that have never been abused (by over-raising the quill, fitting to a 22.2mm steerer, fitting a too-wide handlebar, over-tightening the bolts or by doing an arm-workout on the climbs and sprints) have relatively little to worry about.
Of course, it's almost impossible to know what sort of abuse MAY have been done to the used parts that show up today, making Sheldon's advice worth keeping in mind, especially for bigger and harder-riding cyclists.
dddd is offline  
Old 07-21-12, 12:10 PM
  #16  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
I ran a 25.4 bar in a 25.0 clamp French Phillipe stem for years before I knew better.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 07-21-12, 12:41 PM
  #17  
Chombi
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,138

Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 145 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Remember to check out Atax stems too, if you want to keep the bike as all-French as posssible. Atax provided Peugeot with stems for many years, including Peugoet labeled models. Finding French sized Atax stems would not be a problem too, as that is most of what they made.

Chombi
Chombi is offline  
Old 07-21-12, 02:07 PM
  #18  
Rodion R
Senior Member
 
Rodion R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
According to verktyg AVA stems were not the only ones that had a reputation for failure. The following quote is from the thread titled "My Gitane Tour de France build thread".
Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
Bennie222, Greetings,


AVA Death Stems were known to break at the neck where it flares out for the bar clamp. Pivo Death Stems (and other makes of cheap bike boom cast aluminum stems) broke off at the bottom from radial cracks generating from the top of the expander splits.

I had 2 "TWO!" stems break on me that way while road testing customer's bikes bikes in the mid 70s!!! I was lucky and stopped the bikes without getting injured.

I also had a steering tube break off at the bottom of the threaded section but was able to shove the stem back in and come to a controlled stop. These kinds of problems can happen when stems are up to high in the steerer.

I would get the steerer properly repaired!

STEMS NEED TO BE INSERTED AT LEAST 75mm INTO THE STEERER TO GET BELOW THE THREADED SECTION!!! Same thing with seatposts.

Gitane Interclubs, TdFs and Super Corsas came with cheap Pivo alloy bars. Most other mid range bike boom era French bikes with alloy bars had similar cheap bars!

They're OK for casual use if they're not sagging or drooping. If they are bent down even slightly they can fail unexpectedly. Get rid of them!

Millions of cast aluminum "deaths stems" were manufactured from the late 50s until the mid 70s. Only a few have failed. If you want to use one of them for casual rides, remove it and clean and carefully inspect it looking for any signs of cracking, especially at the top of the expander split.

The main difference between Tour de France frames and Super Corsa frames is the length of the steering tubes. TdFs have shorter steerers to fit the 33mm stack height of Stronglight P3 headsets. Super Corsa steerers were made longer for the 41mm stack height of Campy headsets.

Pre-1974 TdFs came with at least 4 different styles of Simplex dropouts including several without integral derailleur hangers. A few frames also came with Campy rear dropouts - that does not make them a Super Corsa - it was probably due to a shortage of Simplex dropouts.

Here's a link to the GitaneUSA.com forum with a thread discussing the differences. Scroll down to my smiling face and lots of pictures.

https://www.gitaneusa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1797

While you have the frame torn down, it would be a good idea to have the head tube and fork crown faced off by someone wit the right tools and knowhow to do the job correctly. Same thing for the bottom bracket.

TdFs were in the mid range sweet spot of $225 to $295. The Peugeot PX-10, Raleigh Competition and several Motobecane models where in the same price range. I never liked the way PX-10s rode or handled, Moto didn't really get their act together until 1974 and Raleigh Competitions never got closer than 20 feet to a file when they were being built!

Hope this helps a little.

Chas. (verktyg)
Rodion R is offline  
Old 01-17-13, 04:50 PM
  #19  
verktyg 
verktyg
 
verktyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,413

Bikes: Current favorites: 1988 Peugeot Birraritz, 1984 Gitane Super Corsa, 1981 Bianchi Campione Del Mondo, 1992 Paramount OS, 1990 Bianchi Mondiale, 1988 Colnago Technos, 1985 RalieghUSA Team Pro, 1973 Holdsworth

Mentioned: 167 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 748 Post(s)
Liked 416 Times in 278 Posts
Originally Posted by dddd View Post
Thanks for another data point.

I should have clarified, I did have to sand the Cinelli going into the Gitane, but it was more like 3Speed described, just a couple of minutes and a couple of test-fits to get it down to racing height.

And no, it wasn't one of the 22.0-sized Cinelli stems (which were clearly marked and which had 26.4mm bar clamp dia.).


OrangeHorse wrote:

"Do you have any that have a 25.4 clamp rather than the typical French 25.0 clamp?"

That's a problem with most French-sized stems, having to search out a 25.0 handlebar.
Some later-70's bikes did come with good, solid bars in a decently-wide width for average-plus sized American riders, but these are not that easy to find and many of these French-made bars turn out to be 25.4mm clamp dia.
The Cinelli stems with 22.0mm quill are scarce enough that I find it more prectical to sand down a normal Cinelli stem. These seem to need more sanding near the bottom, but little to none higher up where you might not want to sand the anodizing off. It helps to first massage the steerer entry (including the locknut) with a half-round file, but any chrome plating on the nut will tend to ruin the file for future use.


The metallurgy and dimensions of AVA stems make them unsuitable for wide handlebars and certain riding styles (primarily the twisting action that some riders apply through the bars). That said, lighter, calmer riders with AVA stems that have never been abused (by over-raising the quill, fitting to a 22.2mm steerer, fitting a too-wide handlebar, over-tightening the bolts or by doing an arm-workout on the climbs and sprints) have relatively little to worry about.
Of course, it's almost impossible to know what sort of abuse MAY have been done to the used parts that show up today, making Sheldon's advice worth keeping in mind, especially for bigger and harder-riding cyclists.
Late as usual... Lots of good points.

If you are looking for safety and performance not originality, most Nitto stems are actually 22.1mm not 22.2mm and will fit into "most" French steering tubes. They are available for both 25.4mm and 26mm bars, Nitto also makes some wide 25.4mm bars.

Chas.

verktyg

Last edited by verktyg; 01-17-13 at 04:51 PM. Reason: spelling error
verktyg is offline  
Old 01-17-13, 05:02 PM
  #20  
puchfinnland
MIKE is my name!
 
puchfinnland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: finland,baltimore
Posts: 2,886

Bikes: hans lutz, , puch mistral ultima,2x Austro Daimler Smoked chrome Ultima,Austro Daimler Mixte,Austro Daimler 531 mixte, flying arrow,F Moser,

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I have these Ava stems nos . Actually have four of them!
they are beautiful !
puchfinnland is offline  
Old 01-17-13, 07:38 PM
  #21  
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Posts: 17,415
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 437 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by verktyg View Post
Late as usual... Lots of good points.

If you are looking for safety and performance not originality, most Nitto stems are actually 22.1mm not 22.2mm and will fit into "most" French steering tubes. They are available for both 25.4mm and 26mm bars, Nitto also makes some wide 25.4mm bars.

Chas.

verktyg
I haven't heard that one before and it certainly hasn't been my experience.
Grand Bois is offline  
Old 01-17-13, 08:35 PM
  #22  
SuperLJ
"part timer"
 
SuperLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tidewater VA
Posts: 583

Bikes: 1975 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1978 Bertin C35, 1982 Trek 614, 1983 Trek 620, 1984 Nishiki Seral, 1995 Mercian KoM, 1998 Fisher HKEK, 2000 Rivendell RS, 2001 Heron Touring, 2016 Nobilette Custom

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Liked 80 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
I ran a 25.4 bar in a 25.0 clamp French Phillipe stem for years before I knew better.
+1

I've done the same thing. Every Philippe handlebar I've ever had (a total of 2) measured 25.2 in the clamp area, halfway between French & English. Find an old 70's Philippe stem and it'll be compatible your 22.0 steerer and your modern 25.4 handlebars with no modifications.
SuperLJ is offline  
Old 01-17-13, 08:55 PM
  #23  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,957

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1063 Post(s)
Liked 488 Times in 347 Posts
I've dug through the road stem bins many times looking for a right-length stem with a minimal quill OD (using the caliper) that requires the minimal amount of filing/sanding than usual.

The last 3 stems chosen were:

ITM, OEM-level road stem (110mm, 25.4mm clamp, long-ish quill). This one required minimal reduction, focusing mostly on a few "high spots" along the quill. This I had to make fit into my Steyr's Frennch-sized steerer.

Nitto 100mm road stem, which was fairly easy to reduce sufficiently to fit into a 1974 PX10LE. This stem feels unusually stiff, so a good choice for this twitchy bike!

Kalloy, late-1980's generic 25.4mm road stem. I've done a couple of these, not too hard but took 25 minutes or so each time as I was trying not to needlessly remove any metal, only where needed. These are also rather sturdy, and one went into a 1972 PX10 and one went into a 1979 PX10.

I remember having to reduce one generic alloy stem to fit into a 1979 U09, and that stem took a lot of work with file and coarse sandpaper to get a normal amount of insertion.

The one GOOD thing about having to sand-to-fit is that you can achieve an abnormally slop-free joining of stem to steerer. Too bad most stems don't fit this well, but then I guess they might more easily get completely stuck in place with just a little corrosion.
dddd is offline  
Old 01-17-13, 09:00 PM
  #24  
dddd
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
 
dddd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 7,957

Bikes: Cheltenham-Pederson racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1063 Post(s)
Liked 488 Times in 347 Posts
Originally Posted by SuperLJ View Post
+1

I've done the same thing. Every Philippe handlebar I've ever had (a total of 2) measured 25.2 in the clamp area, halfway between French & English. Find an old 70's Philippe stem and it'll be compatible your 22.0 steerer and your modern 25.4 handlebars with no modifications.
Another data point, on my 1984 720, Trek used a 25.4 or 25.2mm Beleri handlebar in the 26.4mm clamp of the Cinelli 1A stem. What foolishness, it might have cracked the clamp or even the clamp bolt.
I got slippage immediately after substituting a slightly longer, 1R stem. Ended up having to buy a Cinelli bar for it while I was still trying to get the Helicomatic freewheel ratios sorted.

Last edited by dddd; 01-17-13 at 09:03 PM.
dddd is offline  
Old 01-17-13, 10:25 PM
  #25  
mickey85
perpetually frazzled
 
mickey85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Linton, IN
Posts: 2,470

Bikes: 1977 Bridgestone Kabuki Super Speed; 1979 Raleigh Professional; 1983 Raleigh Rapide mixte; 1974 Peugeot UO-8; 1993 Univega Activa Trail; 1972 Raleigh Sports; 1967 Phillips; 1981 Schwinn World Tourist; 1976 Schwinn LeTour mixte; 1964 Western Flyer

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I had an AVA stem (without the hole in the back...it didn't appear to be the "death stem...) and it snapped at the point where it entered the fork (I had it just further in than the minimum insertion line). That kind of failure makes me think that it is inferior metallurgy, not poor design.
mickey85 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.